Mid to Upper level quality .45?

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Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by valbern67 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Hi Everyone!

I've pretty much decided to get a Hämmerli X-esse Sport for my .22 (once I get my FID) and now it's time to start considering my options for the .45.

I've heard great things about Les Bauer and welcome any other ideas in that price range and lower.

Thank you!

Valerie

alien
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Tim:H11 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:54 pm

Skip Les Baer and buy a Rock River Arms or have Jon Eulette build you one. Jon built me mine and I wouldn’t part with it for love nor money.
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by zanemoseley on Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:57 pm

Budget?

New or used?

Irons or dot?

Frame or slide mount dot? If undecided I would suggest slide mount.


You won't find as many Les Beer lovers on the forum. There are a few but more that think negatively about them. In a similar price range RRA gets mostly good reviews. Then of course you have full custom pistols which are about $3500 for a good one.

Many will suggest a Springfield Armory Range Officer and upgrade as needed. They're good starter to intermediate pistols but if you throw in a ton of cash upgrading them you get to the point you could have gotten a nicer purpose built pistol.

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by robert84010 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:27 pm

Valerie,
I see you mentioned being in NJ. I would recommend you go to a match or two and just shoot your .22, it's allowed now. You will probably meet people in your area that have guns for sale since there is a lot of bullseye competition in NJ. You could see the differences in how people build things and maybe try one before buying.

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by valbern67 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:41 pm

Thanks, guys~

I'd really like to keep it under 2K and would definitely considered used. I'll use a slide mount red dot.

I am registered to shoot in an all .22 match on Octeber 6 in NJ, borrowing a gun from the wonderful couple that introduced me to Bullseye. I'll watch more matches as well, of course!

Definitely not in a hurry - I just like to research a lot..... lol!
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by valbern67 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:07 pm

What is it about Les Baer guns that many people don't like?

Any options other than the Springfield Armory Range Officer?

Thanks

Val
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by SW-52 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:32 pm

valbern67 wrote:What is it about Les Baer guns that many people don't like?

Any options other than the Springfield Armory Range Officer?

Thanks

Val
I have a accurized RO, but you dont want one,less les baer....is possible you want Rock River 1911.
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Chris Miceli on Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:55 pm

I wouldn’t buy a rock river or a lesbear. The Springfield custom shop makes a decent gun. A used custom built is best value.
A tuned up range officer is coming up against used custom gun $
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by zanemoseley on Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:58 pm

You can get a nice used RRA for under $2k. I got one last year for about $1800 on Gunbroker. The new ones are $2500, they had several years they didn't make them while they were busy feeding the AR-15 craze so the new ones are a bit unproven but I expect them to be good. I think the one I bought was a 1999 model. I sold it to a friend to buy another custom 1911.

We've heard from a couple smiths that they're not a fan of how LB fits barrels amongst other things. Their standard wadcutter pistol is a frame mount which I'm not a fan of. My first wad pistol was a used frame mount LB. It was a pretty nice pistol but had more snappy recoil than I like, I think most of this was due to it being a frame mount, I was also a newbie, today I could probably get it feeling better with recoil spring and load tweaks. More snappy recoil I think makes flinching worse which you don't want when you're new.

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by PhotoEscape on Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:07 pm

I'll second Chris Miceli here.  Not many folks are aware how good Springfield's Custom shop is, even though Dave Williams isn't running it anymore (he's now head of R&D, and coming up with great new products!).  The only bad news here is that Custom Shop is concentrating now on minor action work (i.e. fine tuning triggers), but predominantly concentrating on building new custom guns.........., and there is a two plus years of backlog.  However I also do like Les Baer guns, - also about 18-24 months wait time.  Purpose BE build gun - Jon Eulette!
AP
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Tim:H11 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:31 pm

One option, and it’s an affordable one is David Salyer. I have a wad gun he built out of a Springfield Mil Spec (WW2) and it shoots to call. No problems. I bought it used as an affordable back up. My primary was built by Jon Eulette and it was a Springfield Mil Spec too. Sometimes it can be very affordable to to have a gun accurized vs a full build. Sometimes it’s worth it to just spend the money on a full build. Just depends on what you wallet is ok with. 

I would say shop for a used wad gun. The season is almost over so there’s gonna be guns for sale as winter leagues atart up and come spring time right before the season fires up again there should be some more that come available. But watch the classifieds section here because they can pop up any time. Gunbroker too.
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by john bickar on Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:46 pm

Tim:H11 wrote:One option, and it’s an affordable one is David Salyer. I have a wad gun he built out of a Springfield Mil Spec (WW2) and it shoots to call. No problems. I bought it used as an affordable back up. My primary was built by Jon Eulette and it was a Springfield Mil Spec too. Sometimes it can be very affordable to to have a gun accurized vs a full build. Sometimes it’s worth it to just spend the money on a full build. Just depends on what you wallet is ok with. 

I would say shop for a used wad gun. The season is almost over so there’s gonna be guns for sale as winter leagues atart up and come spring time right before the season fires up again there should be some more that come available. But watch the classifieds section here because they can pop up any time. Gunbroker too.

+1 for Dave Salyer, and another +1 for watching for a used bullseye wad gun locally, on this forum, and TargetTalk. It's too bad there isn't a BE equivalent to the service rifle "buy this upper from White Oak and go shoot a bunch." Seems like the market is ripe for an out-of-the-box wad gun around $1200-1500, but the market is small. 1911s that shoot well at 50 yards are like carbines that shoot well at 600 yards to 99% of the shooting world...
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Sheriff1962 on Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:30 am

Not sure what's wrong with Les Baer . My 1997 LB Hardball gun , puts 10 rounds of factory ball in to a 10 ring at 50 off the bench with boring regularity.  My recent PII does the same with several different loads and on top of is as reliable as my carry Glock 17. My buddy from work has a 6 inch 9mm LB pistol that puts 5 rounds of AA 115JHP into half dollar size group at 50 yards.  I give Les Baer my vote any day.

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by valbern67 on Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:05 am

How about Colt Gold Cup National Match?
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by GaryWWhite on Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:13 am

Before the pricing of the gun was mentioned I would have said Accuracy X for the best wad gun; however, with price constraints I would also have to join the bandwagon about using Springfield Armory's custom shop for accurization.  I personally have a TRP which they and Wilson Combat have set up for me and it shoots very well. I really can't say anything bad about Les Baer's pistols, especially those set up for their 1.5" guarantee at 50 yds. I think a good used pistol from them would serve you well. Also wanted to add to utilize Gun Broker and Guns America to help you find a good gun.

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Gary Wells on Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:59 am

I have owned 2 baers, both early model Premier II's. I still own 1, and love it about as much as anything else that I own, but they are NO MATCH for what the competition shooters on here need. I believe that the LB PII with 1.5"50yd with "sort of a guarantee" is about $3200 now. Their standard 3"50yd gun is about $2800 Their new guns are not finished nearly as nice as their older ones were.

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Tim:H11 on Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:57 am

Colt doesn’t make a competitive worthy pistol in my opinion. It’s like a range officer but not as accurate however they are better looking... if you want that more, then go with what ever floats your boat. I’d take a RO over a Colt every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Chris Miceli on Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:30 am

Sheriff1962 wrote:Not sure what's wrong with Les Baer . My 1997 LB Hardball gun , puts 10 rounds of factory ball in to a 10 ring at 50 off the bench with boring regularity.  My recent PII does the same with several different loads and on top of is as reliable as my carry Glock 17. My buddy from work has a 6 inch 9mm LB pistol that puts 5 rounds of AA 115JHP into half dollar size group at 50 yards.  I give Les Baer my vote any day.
The gold standard for 45 is 1.5” or less 10 shot groups 9mm better be close to 1” or less all at 50 ysrds
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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Sheriff1962 on Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:48 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:
Sheriff1962 wrote:Not sure what's wrong with Les Baer . My 1997 LB Hardball gun , puts 10 rounds of factory ball in to a 10 ring at 50 off the bench with boring regularity.  My recent PII does the same with several different loads and on top of is as reliable as my carry Glock 17. My buddy from work has a 6 inch 9mm LB pistol that puts 5 rounds of AA 115JHP into half dollar size group at 50 yards.  I give Les Baer my vote any day.
The gold standard for 45 is 1.5” or less 10 shot groups 9mm better be close to 1” or less all at 50 ysrds
I know.  From s RR. With ideal ammo for gun.  My old premier II puts 10 rounds of dutt Federal HST into 3 inches at 50 yards with ME aiming and shooting off the bench.  And it does it consistently.   Plus works everytime.   At 25 same gun does x ring with Federal SWC 185 . Again with me benching the gun.  The ONLY complaint I have with some LB guns is the trigger .

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Gary Wells on Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:06 pm

Sheriff1962 wrote:Not sure what's wrong with Les Baer . My 1997 LB Hardball gun , puts 10 rounds of factory ball in to a 10 ring at 50 off the bench with boring regularity.  My recent PII does the same with several different loads and on top of is as reliable as my carry Glock 17. My buddy from work has a 6 inch 9mm LB pistol that puts 5 rounds of AA 115JHP into half dollar size group at 50 yards.  I give Les Baer my vote any day.
Sheriff1962:
Was your 1997 LB built under the "Les Baer Custom" shop's name or was your LB built by him before he formed his company?

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Sheriff1962 on Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:11 pm

My les Baers are from I would says mid 1990's to 2 years ago.  Accuracy is from good to very good. reliability is perfect. I been buying and shooting LB guns for 20 years. Sure , a custom bullseye gun , build by an expert may shoot a bit better at 50.  But LB guns are really good indeed.

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Gary Wells on Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:32 pm

valbern67 wrote:How about Colt Gold Cup National Match?
Early pre '70 series NM's were great guns & were more than decent shooters but would generally still require some work before becoming competitive guns. In the pre series 70 NM's the Gold Cup logo was on the box, but not the gun I believe. The early '70 series GC NM's had the fingered bushing and were better than OK, but not the gun as the early ones. Things went to hell soon after that.

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by lyman1903 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:57 am

Gary Wells wrote:
valbern67 wrote:How about Colt Gold Cup National Match?
Early pre '70 series NM's were great guns & were more than decent shooters but would generally still require some work before becoming competitive guns. In the pre series 70 NM's the Gold Cup logo was on the box, but not the gun I believe. The early '70 series GC NM's had the fingered bushing and were better than OK, but not the gun as the early ones. Things went to hell soon after that.
Correct, 

pre 70 series were marked National Match

70 Series and 80 Series are marked Gold Cup National Match

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by Gary Wells on Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:14 am

lyman1903 wrote:
Gary Wells wrote:
valbern67 wrote:How about Colt Gold Cup National Match?
Early pre '70 series NM's were great guns & were more than decent shooters but would generally still require some work before becoming competitive guns. In the pre series 70 NM's the Gold Cup logo was on the box, but not the gun I believe. The early '70 series GC NM's had the fingered bushing and were better than OK, but not the gun as the early ones. Things went to hell soon after that.
Correct, 

pre 70 series were marked National Match

70 Series and 80 Series are marked Gold Cup National Match


lyman1903, In late pre 70 series weren't the boxes marked "Gold Cup" even though the guns weren't?
How beautifully finished & fitted those guns were compared to normal "run of the mill" Colts.


Last edited by Gary Wells on Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

Post by robert84010 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:14 pm

valbern67 wrote:Hi Everyone!

I've pretty much decided to get a Hämmerli X-esse Sport for my .22 (once I get my FID) and now it's time to start considering my options for the .45.

I've heard great things about Les Bauer and welcome any other ideas in that price range and lower.

Thank you!

Valerie

alien
this is what you are looking for. bullseye gunsmith, good parts. 

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t10442-wts-slide-mount-45-acp-wad-gun

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Re: Mid to Upper level quality .45?

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