9mm case sizing

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9mm case sizing

Post by spyer40 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:58 am

First topic message reminder :

9mm mixed brass
115 Zero JHP
Dillon 650
Dillon carbide dies

Been loading 9mm for a while with no issues.  Occasionally would have some rounds that would not fully chamber in a Ruger PC9 but otherwise no problems in various other 9mm like Shadow 2, Wilson EDC, and others.  Just picked up a SA RO Elite in 9mm and had several that won't fully chamber.  Reading that Dillon sizing/decapping dies are pretty wide at the base which causes problems with tight chambers? Some threads say have the chamber reamed others say use a different die (including a Lee U undersized die?).  Need to do some measuring but wondering what dies people on here are using.

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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by oldsalt444 on Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:10 am

Yes, Lee FCD does resize quite well.  If you want to go a step further, get the Lee "Bulge Buster" kit which uses the FCD and pushes the case all the way through the die.  Very innovative those guys at Lee, and most reasonable to boot.
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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by noylj on Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:02 am

OK, first, the problem is almost certainly a reloading issue that can be addressed simply be doing a plunk test.

Plunk Testing:



The solution to chambering problems is to determine the cause:

Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long

2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.



An example of the issue with not chambering despite proper sizing is this picture of a 9x19 case. The issue was below the top of shell plate and no sizing die could have taken care of it (as you'll note, it is from a bulge at the feed ramp). Undersized sizing dies don't go any further down that any other sizing die.




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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by LenV on Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:58 am

oldsalt444 wrote:Yes, Lee FCD does resize quite well.  If you want to go a step further, get the Lee "Bulge Buster" kit which uses the FCD and pushes the case all the way through the die.  Very innovative those guys at Lee, and most reasonable to boot.
How would that work for a 9mm? It is a tapered case. If I remember correctly it is .380 OD at the case mouth and .390 at the base. Wouldn't pushing it through give you a straight walled .380 case?
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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by PhotoEscape on Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:22 pm

+1 to LenV's comment.  Stated dimensions are true and correct, - 9mm is tapered case with .390/.380 OD.  Pictures in prior post are representative of 40S&W / 10mm cartridges, both are straight walled ones, and prone to "smiling", especially when shut out of Glocks. 
AP
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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:13 pm

I believe that the 9mm final sizing die is NOT used for bulge busting but don't remember which caliber final sizing die is used.
Time to hit the Lee web page!
SUPPOSEDLY.... the lee final sizing die for 9 Makarov would work as a bulge buster die for 9 mm.
I personally don't like or trust bulged brass .
Brass is cheap relative to my firearm or firing arm.
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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by S148 on Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:26 pm

The plunk test is described at the link below, and is where noylj got one of his figures (give credit where it's due).

http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/

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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by oldsalt444 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:58 am

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:I believe that the 9mm final sizing die is NOT used for bulge busting but don't remember which caliber final sizing die is used.
Time to hit the Lee web page!
SUPPOSEDLY.... the lee final sizing die for 9 Makarov would work as a bulge buster die for 9 mm.
I personally don't like or trust bulged brass .
Brass is cheap relative to my firearm or firing arm.

+1 on 9x18 Mak FCD and not trusting bulged brass from Glocks.  I've seen ruptures happen and the shooter ended up with minor cuts and bleeding. 


Glock Cases: We do not recommend "fixing" cases fired in pistols with unsupported chambers, because there is no way to make them safe once they have bulged as in TOP picture below. The case wall is thinned where it bulges, and resizing the outside of the case back down to the correct diameter does not restore the case back to its original thickness. If this case is fired in a pistol with an unsupported chamber again, and this thinned section of brass happens to line up with the unsupported part of the chamber, there is a high probability that the case will rupture as in the BOTTOM picture below.
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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by noylj on Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:35 am

The main problem the FCD "addressed" is seating the bullet crooked so the case bulges out at the base of the bullet. You can mark up the bullet and case of  a non-chambering round and do a plunk test to determine the actual problem you have.
The bulge issue is best corrected by eliminating it by ensuring the bullet and seating stem actually FIT (Lee makes very good custom seating stems) and that the case expansion produces a case ID that is 0.001-0.002" smaller than actual bullet diameter.
All the FCD does of iron out the bulge.
The crimp is produces is excellent, but that carbide ring can hurt accuracy.

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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by Sc0 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:06 am

Could also send the barrel out or purchase a 9mm finish reamer?  Purchased a Tanfoglio last year for fun shooting and due to many people having chambering problems, I had a local gunsmith run a finishing reamer through it.  Probably took about 10 minutes but 0 issues chambering any of my ammo.

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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by S148 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:51 pm

noylj, how does the carbide ring hurt accuracy?

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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by james r chapman on Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:31 pm

S148 wrote:noylj, how does the carbide ring hurt accuracy?
not noyli, but, I've heard it sometimes can resize the projectile undersize.
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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by JetAv8r on Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:39 pm

I had the same problem with my 9mm RO. Reloads would check OK with a case gauge but flunk the barrel plunk test. My fix was to screw the sizing die down till it touched the shell plate and leave it there. Not had any problems since.

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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by spyer40 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:20 pm

I took the advice about bullet getting seated crooked as another potential problem and bought a Powder Transfer Unit from photoescape.  It doesn't do the "liberty bell" flare like the Dillon and worked much better for me this past weekend.  The bullet seemed to naturally sit square in the shell without any effort compared to before.

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions/assistance.

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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by PhotoEscape on Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:39 pm

Still suggest paying attention to sizing.  Otherwise, - thank you!  Glad my PTU worked as supposed to.  I'd be interested to learn how did it affect accuracy.
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Re: 9mm case sizing

Post by robert84010 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:44 pm

spyer40 wrote:I took the advice about bullet getting seated crooked as another potential problem and bought a Powder Transfer Unit from photoescape.  It doesn't do the "liberty bell" flare like the Dillon and worked much better for me this past weekend.  The bullet seemed to naturally sit square in the shell without any effort compared to before.

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions/assistance.
that will work. Lee FCD do not correct the problem, they are just an after the damage has occurred crutch.

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Re: 9mm case sizing

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