WTB: 32 Target Pistol

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WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by zanemoseley on 9/26/2018, 10:58 am

First topic message reminder :

I'm already getting the pre-Winter blues and am thinking of picking up a project to keep me busy. Loading and testing 32 S&W should keep me busy. So I'm looking for something reliable, accurate and affordable lol. It doesn't have to be super new, I've been looking at older Walther GSP's but am open to options. I'm also open to 32 ACP but my budget probably won't allow it. I'm LH/med but I can always get new grips. In addition to cash I have a top of the line Arsenal brand AK-47 I'm thinking of trading/selling, its their top of the line forged receiver not stamped steel, I also have 10 magazines and some ammo. Let me know what ya got.

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32 Target Pistol

Post by 38Super!! on 10/1/2018, 8:54 pm

32 S&W Long:

The GSP 32 (new/old/Expert) is quite front heavy with or without the Wilson faster twist barrel.

The Benelli's trigger is not near as good as the GSP or Pardini.  Firing pins were too soft and broke easily.  Larry @ Larrysguns made stronger ones a few years ago.  Probably why they are quite a bit cheaper.

The Pardini works great in all respects and parts are quickly and readily available thru PardiniUSA in Tampa.

Have owned and shot all three.  Got rid of the GSP Expert and Benelli (MP20) because of the above

The Matchguns model is unproven.  If it is a good as the MG-2 .22LR, it might be an excellent choice.

32 ACP:

Still in development and not widely used COMPETITIVELY.  Emil Milev, formerly of PardiniUSA and now at Ohio Stated shot the Pardini very well at Perry in recent years but haven't heard or read of anyone else lighting up the matches with one.

Components not widely available for reloading.  Unless it picks up substantially in popularity, that will not change.

There are a bunch of posts on Targettalk re the 32 ACP, however most are from the same people in a very small group.  Don't let the number of posts fool you into thinking it is popular.  32 ACP was quite the rage about a dozen years ago but fairly quickly died out.  David Sams suggested that he turn my Benelli into a 32 ACP.  The lack of a decent trigger nixed that idea.

Loading either is an exercise in anality and a science in and of itself.  Don't expect anything.  Weights are 1.3 or 1.4 with a faster twist barrel and 1.6 to 1.8 for the stock barrel.  They are very difficult to metered accurately and will require additional loading gear.  

If you intend to go thru that, then get a pistol that is accurate and built for competition.  The Speer 4600 bullet is the cheapest and very accurate when loaded properly.  They are not always available because Speer only makes a seasonal run.  Lapua are sometimes available but very, very expensive.  H&N didn't see a market in the Americas to make exporting worthwhile.  Anything else available is cast and will never work well for the 50-yard line.  

Plan to spend over $1500 for a decent used GSP Expert or Pardini pistol.  Add another $1000 for new.  Spending less will provide you with a very expensive paper-weight sometimes referred to as a P.O.S.  Try all on the market before buying.  

If you are intent on buying a POS, and thoroughly test your sanity , then by all means waste your money.  It will be a pity though given what a tattered Continental Army went through at that Valley Forge to establish our First Amendment freedoms for you to pick and choose . . . wisely.  Picking . . . poorly . . is your God-given right as well.

If you think that you need a different CF gun for matches, look at the 38 Super.  Very accurate with light loads and very flat-shooting for very minimal scope adjustments between 25 and 50 yards.  Using a Marvel, a 1911 38 Super, and a 1911 45 greatly simplifies the issue.  Using a Marvel and a 1911 for CF & 45 greatly simplifies it considerable more.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by rich.tullo on 10/1/2018, 9:01 pm

You can find MP90s Benellis cheap. 

A little more you can get a Walter GSG and they are good, not sure how good on the long line. If you have a Pardini I think they make a conversion kit. I am not sure if Walter makes a GSG conversion kit for the GSG or how well it works. 

As long as we are talking, I have always been intrigued by the Benelli MPS .32. They came out with that line just as the world feel in love with the Super 9s and it never took off. Its a single stack. I am no expert but the gun looks similar to the Pardini GT.
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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by 38Super!! on 10/1/2018, 9:18 pm

rich.tullo wrote:You can find MP90s Benellis cheap.  

For the reason I mentioned.


A little more you can get a Walter GSG and they are good, not sure how good on the long line. If you have a Pardini I think they make a conversion kit. I am not sure if Walter makes a GSG conversion kit for the GSG or how well it works. 

You need to do some research before you post.  Wather makes top ends (22 and 32 SWL)  which are interchangeable as long as you don't by something "old" like the GSP "C".  Anything else and you will probably end up in trouble.  What does a CGC cost and what is it made for?  Competition"  I will bet that it isn't intended to shoot accurately 50 yards.  Why would it be?  Other that Pardini which has catered to the U.S. bullseye market, all others are built for 25 meters.  A faster twist barrel is what make some of them work fairly well CONSISTENTLY at 50. 

Pardini makes conversions as well but Pardini makes changes, subtle and not so subtle or obvious, to their SP and HP so you have to ask the folks at Pardini if the one you might be looking can be converted if that is a option that might be pursued.


As long as we are talking, I have always been intrigued by the Benelli MPS .32. They came out with that line just as the world feel in love with the Super 9s and it never took off. Its a single stack. I am no expert but the gun looks similar to the Pardini GT.

Probably a reason for that for being made in Italy fairly close to each opther.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by rich.tullo on 10/1/2018, 9:38 pm

I have seen Walters sold together as a set. The one I saw worked better with 32 than 22. I am not a Walter Expert, but I do know that people with the .22LR love them. 

At the end of the day if you looking to a 32 to get your scores up I have never seen that happen. If you are looking for a 32 for a project and fun then , go for it. 

If you looking for 50 yard accuracy then I would suggest the Pardini in 32 ACP because I heard they shoot good at 50 yards. 

Personally, the only guns I would shoot on the Long Line would be a M52 with one of those new Clark Barrels or a KKM Barrel. Or a .1911 in 38 super with a well fitted barrel. 

Ultimately, with two guns shooting 1.5 inches its the 45acp that is going to score better that is just math. Or if you are shooting a 32 acp it better group about an inch to score as well as a 1911 in 45acp. 

When was the last time someone won at Perry shooting anything but a 45acp in CF. If they could win with a 38 or 32 they would right?
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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by zanemoseley on 10/1/2018, 10:12 pm

Rich, with that logic everyone's 45 score would be higher than their 22 score. Go to a random match and tell me the percentage of shooters with a higher 45 score than 22 score, my guess it's close to 0%. Far more points are lost to recoil than bullet diameter.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by gregbenner on 10/1/2018, 10:52 pm

ZM, if you end up with a Walther, I have an extra Dave Wilson Barrel.  It will shoot X ring with inexpensive Speer Plinkers. Reloading 32s is not difficult if you pay attention and get the right components up front. Lots of advice on this forum. 

I have a bunch of 32 longs and a couple 32 ACPs, and they are all accurate and really fun to shoot.

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.32 Target Pistol

Post by Laserbudd on 10/2/2018, 12:27 am

Walther GSP .32 Long                       $1450.00   
  2 Triggers (Single & Double Stage)       
  3 Magazines

 
For inquiries:  PM me or Text/Call: (765) 621-5277
                     Photos on request
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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by rich.tullo on 10/2/2018, 7:42 am

There you go new that gun costs $2300.
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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by messenger on 10/2/2018, 8:34 am

I have a Pardini 32 S&WL. I also have a 32 ACP conversion for it. I actually like shooting the S&WL version more but that is using H&N HBWC's. I guess when I run out of them I will fall back on the ACP.

Bill
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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by zanemoseley on 10/2/2018, 10:44 am

gregbenner wrote:ZM, if you end up with a Walther, I have an extra Dave Wilson Barrel.  It will shoot X ring with inexpensive Speer Plinkers. Reloading 32s is not difficult if you pay attention and get the right components up front. Lots of advice on this forum. 

I have a bunch of 32 longs and a couple 32 ACPs, and they are all accurate and really fun to shoot.

Thanks for the offer, I've been speaking with Dave a bit. He was telling me about Larry Blackmon who makes a swaging press and dies to turn the Speer plonker into a H&N clone.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by zanemoseley on 10/2/2018, 10:45 am

messenger wrote:I have a Pardini 32 S&WL. I also have a 32 ACP conversion for it. I actually like shooting the S&WL version more but that is using H&N HBWC's. I guess when I run out of them I will fall back on the ACP.

Bill
Check out the Larry Blackmon swagimg presss and die to turn Speer Plinkers into H&N clones.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by zanemoseley on 10/2/2018, 10:46 am

Laserbudd wrote:Walther GSP .32 Long                       $1450.00   
  2 Triggers (Single & Double Stage)       
  3 Magazines

 
For inquiries:  PM me or Text/Call: (765) 621-5277
                     Photos on request
I just text you my email address for pictures.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by messenger on 10/2/2018, 11:12 am

zanemoseley wrote:Check out the Larry Blackmon swagimg presss and die to turn Speer Plinkers into H&N clones.

All I could find is his equipment making .223. Do you have a link or website to his bumping up the Speer plinkers.

Bill
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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by zanemoseley on 10/2/2018, 11:20 am

Just email him, I don't know the 32 dies are on his price list. He also told me he can make a 38 wadcutter swaging die but I don't know what you use for blanks.

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Larry B made a die from an H&N Bullet for Greg Benner

Post by CraigB5940 on 10/2/2018, 1:59 pm

It's a one off custom die, I got the drawings Dave Wilson used to build his resizing die to replicate the H&N bullet.

I was in contact with Larry B about using the drawing from Dave Wilson to build me one when my Benelli Mp 90 turned into a rabid alibi machine right in the middle of the outdoor bullseye season and I got so pissed off at the Benelli I went out and bought a Pardini  BE SP in 22 with a 32 AP conversion!

I can send you Dave's die drawing, I can't remember if Larry B had the dimensions of Greg Benner's die saved. I tested Dave Wilson's resized plinkers and they were promising, I was about to test a sample of Greg Benners bullets made with the Larry B die when the Benelli acted up.

The Benelli really pissed me off, I bought it last year it ran great for one year and all of the sudden bam-alibis every 2 or 3 rounds. I tried everything within my power to fix it, factory ammo, new recoil spring, extractor and extractor plunger and plunger spring all for naught. I have 4 mags, two were set aside as spares when the gun was new and shot very little, it happened with all 4 mags. My Benelli 22 MP 90 ran for 20 years with very few alibis and broke a firing pin after 19 years of use. I have my doubts about the MP 90 in 32 SW long.



I'm still so pissed off  at the Benelli  that  I have not got around to sending it to Larry Carter to fix it.  I spent a lot of time in the past year tinkering with finding the best load and bullet for this gun to shoot at the long line and then it let me down just when I really thought I was onto something special!

The Pardini  SP has been behaving well after about 3K of 22 rounds and 1K rounds 32 reloads, 500 with 60 gr XTP bullet and 500 with the 60 gr LSWC T&B bullet. 1 logged one 22 alibi, 0 alibis for the 32 ACP.

At this point, if I had to do it all over again I think I would have started with the 32 ACP but I just started BE shooting last year and I did not know about how tough it is to get a 32 to shoot on the long line. The 32 ACP defies logic, my bore slugs out to .3125 and the XTPs are .311 diameter! The T&B LSWC bullets are .314 diameter. I jumped right in with the 32 ACP and got promising long line targets on my first range testing session with the load Pardini USA recommended.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by JKR on 10/2/2018, 3:32 pm

CraigB5940

By any chance were you using Larry's white plastic recoil buffers in your Benelli? Try the soft ones made from key fob material as described sticky in the equipment forum.

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Funny you should ask!

Post by CraigB5940 on 10/2/2018, 7:01 pm

I'll try to make a new buffer out of softer material.

All of this happened immediately after I replaced the  worn out recoil buffer (brown/red) with one of the black ones. I actually took the buffer plate from my 22 that still had a brown/red pad and that did not help. I discovered the buffer was shot when I did a normal cleaning.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by zanemoseley on 10/2/2018, 7:43 pm

Have you tried running without the buffer? I know with 22 conversions some use buffers and some do not.

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No the buffer is a factory item for the 22 and 32

Post by CraigB5940 on 10/2/2018, 7:50 pm

I did not have any Key Fobs around but I made one out of a thick piece of leather. I will test tomorrow, it's the only thing I did not try but this happened from round #1 after I changed the old cracked buffer.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by Bubba Blaster on 10/2/2018, 8:19 pm

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1453-benelli-mp-90-95-better-recoil-buffer-free

FREE FREE FREE !

The leather won't work ,don't even bother .

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by JKR on 10/3/2018, 6:17 am

Two years ago I decided I'd fix something that wasn't broke and replaced the buffers in both of my pistols using the replacement ones that Larry sells. They ran fine for about 100 rounds and then I started having problems with both guns. I then made some out of key fobs and installed them. Both pistols have run perfectly ever since. 

I think Bubba's right about the leather and I definitely wouldn't run one of these guns without a buffer.

Jim

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Leather worked as a temporary buffer!

Post by CraigB5940 on 10/3/2018, 4:28 pm

Thanks all, I think I'm onto something here!
I never paid attention to the buffer sticky and for years the buffers from Larry worked fine in my 22. The 32 may be a different animal, I don't want to test fate and put the latest buffers in my 22, it's working fine with the last batch of larry's buffers before I bought this batch.

I couldn't find a rubber promotional key fob in our house so I used a piece of thick leather and things improved then I put the larry's buffer back in and presto, alibis on the second shot and they kept coming. I put the leather back in and things were good for 100 total rounds, then reliability suffered-the leather started to compress to the level of the buffer plate. I'm going to source some 3/16 rubber from McMaster Carr and expirement with a few different types of hardness grades(medium and medium hard) to see how it works.

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

Post by fc60 on 10/3/2018, 6:55 pm

Greetings Craig,

Do the malfunctions occur with factory ammo; or, hand loads?

If factory, what brand?

If hand loads, what brass, bullet, powder charge are you using?

Last, have you replaced the recoil spring recently? They take a terrible beating.

Cheers,

Dave
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Spring is new, malfunctions happen with factory ammo and reloads

Post by CraigB5940 on 10/3/2018, 8:22 pm

Dave,

It happens with Lapua 98 gr factory loads and handloads with the 98 gr Lapua and 98 gr Speer plinkers.
I'm not down in the shop now to get the grain weights, but it happens with my loads of BE and N310 that are within the Alliant and VV load data that yielded over 1,000 loads for each powder type with 0 or at most 1 alibi per powder load. This is with Lapua brass. No change on crimp or COL either.


The smoking gun was the problem started immediately after I cleaned the pistol and changed the factory buffer which finally failed with about 3K rounds from when I bought the gun new last year.

When the problem stated installed a new recoil spring, new extractor complete with new plunger and spring as well-it made no change at all.

Nothing worked until today when I ditched the larry carter buffers and slapped in my makeshift leather buffer today-its .150 thick and the larry carter buffers are .180 thick.  The fact that I got the gun to shoot reliably  until the leather compressed flush with the buffer plate  after 100 rounds indicates  something promising to me.  I ordered some 3/16 Buna rubber strip from McMaster Carr, it's medium on the durometer hardness rating and that may be the key-the larry carter buffers are very hard. I can remember the genuine Benelli buffers were softer to the touch. Before today with the leather experiment the gun would not shoot more than 2 to 4 shots before jamming with an alibi-each and every time it ruined a case.

Its maddening to think that this silly rubber part may be to blame. The upside is that it forced me to buy a Pardini in the middle of the match season and I discovered that it's easier for me to shoot the Pardini  and get my scores closer to master level which is my goal for next season. 

Both the 22 and 32 Benellis are now going to be my 25 yard iron sight guns to play with in the winter season-they will compliment my Air Pistol shooting which I do in the off season too.

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Things are improving-I bought some Buna rubber and it works!

Post by CraigB5940 on 10/5/2018, 7:05 am

I got this at Mc Master Carr for $6.52 plus shipping. Initial testing on yielded no malfunctions on my first 50 rounds. If this turns out to be on the soft side for buffer life, they have a huge assortment of materials to experiment with, this is medium hardness, the next step I will try is medium hard in Buna rubber or medium hard in neoprene.


This 3 ft strip will make at least 36 buffers.


Oil-Resistant Buna-N Rubber Strip, 1" x 36", 3/16" Thick, 50A Durometer
https://www.mcmaster.com/9023K43

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Re: WTB: 32 Target Pistol

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