Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

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Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by pgg on 10/20/2018, 5:02 pm

This happened intermittently at an informal match last week.

In slow fire, feeding from a magazine loaded with 5 rounds, it was fine. Bang, next round chambers, single action trigger pull, bang.

In rapid fire, feeding from a magazine loaded with 5 rounds - different results
1) Bang, next round chambers, single action trigger pull, bang.
2) Bang, next round chambers, single action trigger pull, click. Ejected round, and the primer was very slightly dimpled. This only happened once.
3) Bang, next round chambers, double action trigger pull, bang.

This is a new gun, which so far has only had a few hundred rounds through it. Almost all full power 124 gr JHP, but some lighter 147 gr JHPs too.


My guess is that something is preventing the hammer from remaining in the fully cocked position as the slide moves forward and chambers the next round.

For case (2), which happened just once, I think it probably got stuck in the 1/2 cocked position, and then on the trigger pull it fell without enough force to set off the primer. That round did fire later when I ran it through the gun again.

For case (3), which happened on 4 or 5 shots total, the hammer was all the way down, and I had to let the trigger all the way out to reset it, before I could squeeze off a double action shot.

Since that match, I took it out to the range once more, and couldn't replicate the problem.

What should I be looking at, with regard to potential causes and fixes?

Thank you.

pgg

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by Sc0 on 10/20/2018, 5:14 pm

Checked the barrel locking block for cracks? Weird things start to happen when cracks develop.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by pgg on 10/20/2018, 5:24 pm

Sc0 wrote:Checked the barrel locking block for cracks?  Weird things start to happen when cracks develop.  

Thanks, it looks OK.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by Sc0 on 10/20/2018, 5:32 pm

Full Beretta disassembly, check for burrs or for something that needs polishing?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OTc_wb5YaU4

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by DA/SA on 10/20/2018, 6:20 pm

Have you lubed it since you bought it?

Sounds like the slide may not be cycling back fully.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by pgg on 10/20/2018, 6:33 pm

DA/SA wrote:Have you lubed it since you bought it?

Sounds like the slide may not be cycling back fully.

Is it possible for a round to get chambered without it also resetting the trigger and hammer?

I did clean and lube it before taking it back out again (when I couldn't reproduce the issue). So maybe that's all it is. I hope so, that's an easy answer - just lube and break in the gun some more.

It just struck me as very strange. If the gun wasn't cycling fully, I would think the next round wouldn't get chambered. Since it was fully chambering the next round, I assumed the slide was traveling back far enough to reset the hammer, but something wasn't catching and it wasn't staying back. But if the hammer was cycling fully, and falling instead of catching, I'd think the gun would go full auto and my rapid fire string would be over in record time. Smile

Obviously I'm confused by what's happening. Thanks for your thoughts.

pgg

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by pgg on 10/20/2018, 6:51 pm

I just tested with some snap caps. Doesn't seem possible for the slide to move far enough to catch and chamber the next round, but NOT fully reset the hammer. I don't think it could be a lube / short cycling problem.

pgg

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by Sc0 on 10/20/2018, 8:00 pm

Sounds more like the slide isn't FULLY returning to battery, but does go far enough that the disconnector allows you to pull the trigger. Pull the trigger, the hammer hits and pushes the slide forward a little bit when it drops and might even be able to hit the firing pin enough to dimple a primer. With the gun unloaded, you can simulate this by cocking the hammer, and with slight pressure on the trigger you open the slide. It goes probably a bit more than 1/4" before the disconnector activates preventing you from firing the weapon in open battery.

Call it new gun break-in, my rebarreled 1911 did the same for the first 500rds as a few other of my pistols when they are new or incredibly dirty.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by Allgoodhits on 10/21/2018, 9:09 am

If you manually cycle the slide, does the hammer stay back? If not, something mechanical is afoul. If hammer stays back 100% on manual cycles, either grip gun tighter, use both hands or have someone else shoot it. See if the condition repeats. If condition does not repeat then, it may be grip issue. Next try a lighter recoil spring and or lighter lube. Heavier load.
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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by pgg on 10/21/2018, 10:09 am

Allgoodhits wrote:If you manually cycle the slide, does the hammer stay back? If not, something mechanical is afoul. If hammer stays back 100% on manual cycles, either grip gun tighter, use both hands or have someone else shoot it. See if the condition repeats. If condition does not repeat then, it may be grip issue. Next try a lighter recoil spring and or lighter lube. Heavier load.

Yes, when I manually cycle it, the hammer stays back 100% of the time. I'll shoot it some more today and see if it recurs. Thanks.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by Allgoodhits on 10/21/2018, 11:41 am

pgg wrote:
Allgoodhits wrote:If you manually cycle the slide, does the hammer stay back? If not, something mechanical is afoul. If hammer stays back 100% on manual cycles, either grip gun tighter, use both hands or have someone else shoot it. See if the condition repeats. If condition does not repeat then, it may be grip issue. Next try a lighter recoil spring and or lighter lube. Heavier load.

Yes, when I manually cycle it, the hammer stays back 100% of the time. I'll shoot it some more today and see if it recurs. Thanks.
You did not say, but my guess is that the 92 is either a 92F or 92FS. I wonder if the safety/decocker levers are moving downward enough permitting the hammer (decocking) to occur, but not so much that the levers do not return to the up, or fire position?

Try one round in a magazine, then repeat multiple times. Checking for failures. Then do same with two rds, three rounds, four rounds and on and on until it induces a failure. The more rounds in the magazine, the more drag on the slide, which can cause the gun to short cycle, if the load is not hot enough, grip not firm enough, or recoil spring too heavy. Does it do it with more than one magazine? Does it do it with different ammo?
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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by pgg on 10/23/2018, 5:04 pm

It is a 92FS. The safety/decocker is completely up.

I thoroughly cleaned and lubed it.

I could not get the problem to repeat with manual cycling of the gun. Took it to the range a couple days ago to provoke it, couldn't get it to happen again. Was starting to think it was just a dirt/break-in issue.

But I took it to a 22/centerfire match today and had problems again.

One failure during slow fire. The hammer stopped at the 1/2 cocked position. Pulled the trigger, click. Dimpled the primer. Pulled the hammer back manually, pulled the trigger again, bang.

One failure during rapid fire. First shot bang, then the hammer went all the way down, and the second shot was a double action one.

I was using a different magazine (actually a different model from a different manufacturer) for each failure.


I don't know what to do with this thing. Any chance this could be a problem with the trigger job, disconnector, or some related part that needs adjustment? It seems that whatever is supposed to stop the hammer from going forward with the slide, isn't.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by DA/SA on 10/23/2018, 7:03 pm

What was the last thing that was done to it before this started happening?

If it was disassembled and reassemble, it sounds like the sear spring might have been installed upside down, which would cause the tension on the sear to be weak.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by pgg on 10/23/2018, 7:10 pm

DA/SA wrote:What was the last thing that was done to it before this started happening?

If it was disassembled and reassemble, it sounds like the sear spring might have been installed upside down, which would cause the tension on the sear to be weak.

Nothing. It's a pretty new gun. I haven't kept track, but probably under 500 rounds through it, total.

I've never taken it apart, except to pull the slide off for basic cleaning.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by DA/SA on 10/23/2018, 7:16 pm

OK, when you mentioned "trigger job" it sounded like it may have been tinkered with.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by pgg on 10/23/2018, 7:41 pm

DA/SA wrote:OK, when you mentioned "trigger job" it sounded like it may have been tinkered with.

Sorry, I suppose my answer was sort of misleading. It has been tinkered with, but not by me.

It's a new pistol, straight from the gunsmith that built it. His work included a barrel bushing and other assorted things, including some trigger work. It has been perfect up until about a week ago.

I know the correct answer is probably "send it back to the gunsmith and have him figure it out and fix it" ... I'm not real enthusiastic about doing that, because past experience has taught me that it'll be 6 months or more before I see the gun again.

Honestly, if I can't figure this out myself with the forum's help, I have half a mind just to put it on a shelf, shoot my 1911 from now on, and move on. Chalk it up to just the latest in many expensive lessons in my life.

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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

Post by Allgoodhits on 10/23/2018, 8:15 pm

pgg wrote:
DA/SA wrote:OK, when you mentioned "trigger job" it sounded like it may have been tinkered with.

Sorry, I suppose my answer was sort of misleading. It has been tinkered with, but not by me.

It's a new pistol, straight from the gunsmith that built it. His work included a barrel bushing and other assorted things, including some trigger work. It has been perfect up until about a week ago.

I know the correct answer is probably "send it back to the gunsmith and have him figure it out and fix it" ... I'm not real enthusiastic about doing that, because past experience has taught me that it'll be 6 months or more before I see the gun again.

Honestly, if I can't figure this out myself with the forum's help, I have half a mind just to put it on a shelf, shoot my 1911 from now on, and move on. Chalk it up to just the latest in many expensive lessons in my life.
Reach out to Ernie Langdon. He knows Beretta 92's as good as anyone, and may be able to problem solve very quickly for you.
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Re: Odd Beretta 92 malfunction - magazine feeds but trigger pull is double action

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