.315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

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.315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 11/30/2018, 12:48 pm

Have any of the .32 wadcutter shooters out there tried the 85 grain .315 "as cast" wadcutter bullets from Matt's Bullets?  www.mattsbullets.com I bought a box of 100 to try them in my Benelli MP95. Results at 25 yards where good, but I had an occasional unexplained flier, at least one, sometimes two per 10 shots. I measured a handful of the remaining I had yet to load and found that around 20% measured .319 instead of the .315 that the rest measured. This may be the reason for the occasional flier. They may have a couple oversized cavities in their molds? Anyhow, I bought a .315 swaging die from Lee, and ran all of my remaining Matt's Bullets through it, then relubed with liquid alox. Will shoot them this weekend to see how they work. I may be wasting my time and money here, but I'm determined to find a bullet that will work in this damn Benelli (other than the bumped Speer). If nothing else, I'm having fun! So, has anyone tried Matt's?
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by zanemoseley on 11/30/2018, 12:52 pm

I've been talking to Dave Wilson and he says he's not had great results with cast bullets at 50, perhaps good for 25 yards though especially if its larger diameter. .319 is getting very large, I would have guessed that wouldn't have chambered however your brass may have either swaged down the bullet or shaved off the excess.

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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by JKR on 11/30/2018, 5:30 pm

Mike,

I'll be interested to hear the results of your tests. I'm having good luck with a new mold from Accurate Molds. It's an 88 grain bullet that drops at .315-.316. I think these shorter bullets stabilize better in the slow twist barrels as long as the diameter is right. I don't trust my bench rest techniques but my 50 yard scores have been in the mid 90's which is as good as I can shoot anything. 

I've shot some of Dave Wilson's and Greg Benner's swaged bullets and had very good results with those also. Good to know that we can get good 50 yard bullets now that H&N is out of the picture! Zanemosley is providing a much needed service to 32 shooters right now!

Jim

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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 11/30/2018, 6:39 pm

Well, that didn't work as planned. It wouldn't hold the black at 25 yards from a rest. Either these bullets are "less than desirable" or I'm doing something wrong. I tried two ways, one not sizing the brass, just expanding the case mouth (less chance of brass swaging the bullet) the other sizing the brass before reloading. Both were with 1.8 grains of WST powder. Just for comparison, I shot ten rounds of Speer .313 bullets with 1.8 grains of WST from the same rest and they shot less than 2 inch group. Back to the drawing board I guess? Anyone want to buy a .315 Lee swage die cheap? LOL


My next attempt will be bullets from Bear Creek Supply, .314 98 grain hollow base wad cutter. https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/32hbwc98gr I emailed the owner, and he said that this bullet measures a true .314. I then replied asking him if he could make them .3145 or .315, He has yet to reply.


Has anyone tried bullets from Bear Creek?

I sure wish the Speer bullets were an actual .314 instead of .313, I have a feeling they would work good if they were actually sized as labeled. I asked Speer why they are smaller than labeled, and they gave me a lame excuse of people shooting them in .312 bores, and basically I got the impression they just don't care. If Speer knows their bullet is actually .313 then say so!
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by PhotoEscape on 11/30/2018, 7:14 pm

Mike38,
Zane invested into getting his setup, and offers conversion bullets from Speer plinkers to H&N clones as a means to help in off-setting his investment.  Have you seen his posting in Commercial?
AP
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 11/30/2018, 8:02 pm

PhotoEscape wrote:Mike38,
Zane invested into getting his setup, and offers conversion bullets from Speer plinkers to H&N clones as a means to help in off-setting his investment.  Have you seen his posting in Commercial?
AP


Yes I see that. More than likely the route I'll be taking.
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by gregbenner on 11/30/2018, 9:48 pm

Mike38 wrote:My next attempt will be bullets from Bear Creek Supply, .314 98 grain hollow base wad cutter. https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/32hbwc98gr I emailed the owner, and he said that this bullet measures a true .314. I then replied asking him if he could make them .3145 or .315, He has yet to reply.


Has anyone tried bullets from Bear Creek?

I sure wish the Speer bullets were an actual .314 instead of .313, I have a feeling they would work good if they were actually sized as labeled. I asked Speer why they are smaller than labeled, and they gave me a lame excuse of people shooting them in .312 bores, and basically I got the impression they just don't care. If Speer knows their bullet is actually .313 then say so!
 I’ve not tried Bear Creek bullets, also never had decent results with cast bullets in 32 long. Post your results.

 I have a couple guns with tighter barrels (.308 and .311) and have had pretty decent results with the standard Speer bullet.

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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 11/30/2018, 9:51 pm

I just got a reply back from the owner of Bear Creek Supply Bullets. He assures me their 98gr HBWC bullets will measure .314. He also said he couldn't make them larger (.3145-.315) at this time, but he doesn't sound opposed to honing out a swaging die to .3145 if people believed it would help with accuracy. I am going to get some and try them out.
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by JKR on 12/1/2018, 7:57 am

Mike,

Are you bench testing your pistol with a dot sight? If so, you may have better results if you use a small rifle scope, say 4 to 6 power. I never have come up with a good bench technique for a pistol. I would have given up on some great pistols if I'd based their accuracy potential on my bench tests. I now just shoot them standing and compare the results to what I can do with my 22. In matches I often shoot my best scores with the 32.

Jim

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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 12/1/2018, 8:36 am

JKR wrote:Mike,

Are you bench testing your pistol with a dot sight? If so, you may have better results if you use a small rifle scope, say 4 to 6 power. I never have come up with a good bench technique for a pistol. I would have given up on some great pistols if I'd based their accuracy potential on my bench tests. I now just shoot them standing and compare the results to what I can do with my 22. In matches I often shoot my best scores with the 32.

Jim


Sorry, I should have mentioned this, I am bench testing with iron sights, at 25 yards. That's why I think the Speer groups of two inches are very good / acceptable. If these Bear Creek bullets can beat the Speer, then they may have 50 yard potential. And if I can convince him to make some at .3145-.315 they may be even better at 50 yards.


Bear Creek's web site shows these bullets, but in the price list page it doesn't show a price but says "coming soon". So I take it that means he's ramping up production on these 98 grain .314 HBWC bullets. Might be worth looking into for other shooters. I know I'm going to give them a try, and hope to convince them to make some .3145-.315.
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by JKR on 12/1/2018, 9:58 am

Do you know if these Bear Creek bullets will be cast or swaged? 

If you plan on shooting your 32 in the outdoor matches you need to set your standards higher. You should be looking for ten shot groups in the 2 1/2" range at 50 yards.

Jim

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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Wobbley on 12/1/2018, 10:56 am

From this picture these are more than likely swaged.  I have shot some of the Bear Creek supply 185 SWCHB 45 bullets out of my 25-2.  Here is a target.
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by gregbenner on 12/1/2018, 11:32 am

Looking at their webpage, I couldn’t see prices for the Bear Creek bullets?

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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 12/1/2018, 12:17 pm

gregbenner wrote:Looking at their webpage, I couldn’t see prices for the Bear Creek bullets?


On their price sheet https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/price-sheet it say the 98 grain .314 HBWC are "coming soon". Looking at prices of similar bullets, I would guess the price would be around $35/500 which is right in line with the Speer bullets.
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by gregbenner on 12/1/2018, 2:25 pm

Good luck Mike. I have had decent luck with virtually all the swaged bullets at 25 yards. I often use the standard Speer Plinkers without bumping them  for practice in my MP90 as well as others with the .314 barrel with good results on the SL. As Jim indicated, 50 y will be the real test. Always good to have options.


Last edited by gregbenner on 12/1/2018, 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by fc60 on 12/1/2018, 6:49 pm

Greetings Mike38,

Your experience with 'as cast' bullets is typical.

The large ones are from the mould not closing fully.

If it is a 'typical' ferris wheel casting machine, you have bullets from 16 different cavities.

Now, visualize squashing the 0.319" bullets through a 0.314" die. They 'look' nice; but, really are not.

I wonder how many commercial casters measure each bullet prior to sizing with a micrometer?

When I am forced to cast bullets of any size, I measure them with a micrometer. This ferrets out the ones that did not fill the mould, undersize, and the mould did not close fully, oversize. Weighing them is not a true test. Once I sort them by diameter, then I may weigh some to verify there are no air pockets. If you are a good caster, the bullets measured with a micrometer and visually have no defects will shoot rather well.

This Bear Creek outfit sounds promising. I look forward to field reports from fellow testers. Please post actual test targets. "Shoots better than I can" is not a good measure of accuracy.

I tested the new Lapua 0.314" 98 HBWC with the new dark grey lube. They shot horribly. Hopefully, the Bear Creek ones will do well.

Cheers,

Dave
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 12/7/2018, 6:08 pm

The sample pack of Bear Creek 98gr HBWC came in today, and I will be comparing them to Speer 98gr HBWC bullets, see pictures. I randomly picked 10 of each from the boxes for measurements. I measured each bullet with digital calipers three times, twisting the bullet slightly to get a better all around reading. So basically I got 30 readings from each make of bullet. The Bear Creek bullets all had readings of exactly .314. Very consistent and round bullet diameter. The readings from the Speer bullets averaged .313. That's the best you could say. I had readings of .312 - .3125 - .313 - .3135 but an average of .313. The Bear Creek bullets appear to have the same, or very similar lube as on the Speer bullets. Bearing surface on the Bear Creek bullets is smooth (no lube grooves) and the edges front and rear are cleaner / crisper than the Speer bullets. These Bear Creek bullets actually look good. I plan to load 20 rounds of each bullet with identical brass, and 1.8 grains of WST powder. Might try Titegroup later, but I'm starting to shy away from Titegroup because it's extra dirty in the .32 S&WL. Will be shot off a rifle rest, open sights, at 25 yards. I will take pictures of the targets and post them in this thread Sunday.
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by fc60 on 12/8/2018, 12:46 pm

Greetings,

1.8 grains of WST seems a bit stiff.

What velocity does this charge produce?

Also, if you seat the Bear Creek bullets in StarLine, Federal, or other thick wall cases, the hollow base skirt will collapse.

I have been using Lapua and R-P cases that do not collapse the skirt when seated and get better groups.

Cheers,

Dave
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 12/8/2018, 9:29 pm

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

1.8 grains of WST seems a bit stiff.

What velocity does this charge produce?

I have no idea on velocity, no chronograph. Would you be so kind as to make a suggestion? I have tried 1.5 grains of WST and experienced failures to extract. Should I try 1.6 or 1.7?

Also, if you seat the Bear Creek bullets in StarLine, Federal, or other thick wall cases, the hollow base skirt will collapse.

I have been using Lapua and R-P cases that do not collapse the skirt when seated and get better groups.

I have a "custom made" expander that opens the brass ID to .315, hoping that will work? Also using CBC brass with a wall thickness of .010. I do have some S&B brass (I think I bought from you?) would that be better or worse?
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by gregbenner on 12/8/2018, 11:12 pm

Mike38 wrote:
fc60 wrote:Greetings,

1.8 grains of WST seems a bit stiff.

What velocity does this charge produce?

I have no idea on velocity, no chronograph. Would you be so kind as to make a suggestion? I have tried 1.5 grains of WST and experienced failures to extract. Should I try 1.6 or 1.7?

Also, if you seat the Bear Creek bullets in StarLine, Federal, or other thick wall cases, the hollow base skirt will collapse.

I have been using Lapua and R-P cases that do not collapse the skirt when seated and get better groups.

I have a "custom made" expander that opens the brass ID to .315, hoping that will work? Also using CBC brass with a wall thickness of .010. I do have some S&B brass (I think I bought from you?) would that be better or worse?
I use 1.35 WST with Lapua brass, no issue at all, shoots great at 25 yds.  Never had extraction issues, even lighter than that.

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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 12/9/2018, 9:14 am

Well, no tests today. I drive 30 miles one way to the range, only to find out there are CCL classes, and the range is closed. The range calendar says closed at 1:00pm, they changed the time but didn't update the calendar. Maybe next weekend?
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 12/12/2018, 7:48 pm

I got a chance to try out these Bear Creek 98gr .314 HBWC tonight. 1.8 grains of WST powder. Learned a lesson. You're wasting your time shooting for groups with iron sights, or at least I am. A scope is best, or of course a Ransom Rest. I did get one five shot group that was impressive. I shot three times at 25 yards, then looked in my spotting scope, all three well with in the X ring. Fourth shot was a 10, fifth shot a 9, but I called that one. In the hands of a more competent shooter, there is no doubt in my mind these Bear Creek bullets will hold the X ring at 25 yards. What they will do at 50 yards will take some warmer weather and access to a 50 yard range.

I then shot two timed fire targets, free hand. Scores of 94-3x and 93-3x. Those are solid Expert scores, coming from a Sharp Shooter, so that leads me to believe if a Master was shooting my pistol, he could get scores well into his classification level.

I'm going to go ahead and buy 1000 pcs of these bullets and give them a try. If anyone out there has a Benelli MP90/95 along with a Ransom Rest and would be willing to test them at 50 yards, I would be happy to mail you some bullets, free of charge, let you load them and try them out, as long as you are willing to share the results. It may be a month or two before I'm able to send them out. I'm scheduled for surgery in 6 days, and then have a 4 to 6 weeks recovery time. But I'll get "back in the saddle" soon thereafter. Message me if anyone could do this.

Maybe if these bullets are as promising as I think they are, we can convince Bear Creek to swage some at .3145-.315 and see if they are even better. The owner of Bear Creek sounded like he wasn't totally opposed to honing a swage die out a bit and giving them a try, but he also sounded like he would have to sell a lot of these bullets to cover the risk of honing.
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by Mike38 on 12/13/2018, 7:04 pm

I just got an email from Bear Creek Bullets. They have 100,000 of the 98gr .314 HBWC finished and ready for sale. $70/1000 plus $14 shipping. I plan to order 1K soon. If anyone with a Benelli and WST powder that has a Ransom Rest would be interested, I would be happy to ship you 50 bullets for testing at 50 yards. The results will be helping out other shooters too. Thanks.
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Re: .315 "as cast" bullets in .32 Long?

Post by gregbenner on 12/14/2018, 9:49 pm

Mike, I’d be willing to test some in my RR, but I don’t have inserts for my Benelli. I would likely use my Pardini since I recently got some new 3D inserts, and it has a similar size diameter barrel as the Benelli.  Also, I currently use n310 powder, although I have found it quite similar to WST which I used to use.

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