I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

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I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by Rob Kovach on 9/20/2012, 7:44 am

It's kinda bittersweet...Instead of being an 84.9% Marksman with opportunities to win my class, I'm now a 85.1% Sharphooter. I guess it's my incentive to stop sucking and get on with it!

I'd like to see the math on how I got Sharpshooter. If they took any 36 shots in a row that were over 85% then I get it. If they took the last 36 shots that I made, I shouldn't be there yet.(84%) My last CF and .45 were below 85%, but if they took my most recent CF (sub 85) and the 22 from this most recent match with the 18 shots before that then I'm sure that was over 85%

Does any of that make any sense to anyone thats not me?
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by Founder on 9/20/2012, 7:47 am

360 shots, I think it is a rolling average or your last 360 recorded shots to the NRA. Some people get results in faster than others so it may be a timing thing.

Either way...... congratulations!
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by BE Mike on 9/20/2012, 8:53 am

Congratulations! In bullseye, sharpshooter is a transitional class. You are soon to be an expert.
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by DavidR on 9/20/2012, 12:18 pm

If you were classified a marksman then to move up to any next level you have to shoot two matches back to back that the scores average out to the minimum score needed to become that class.
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by rvlvrlvr on 9/20/2012, 2:05 pm

Rob - Congratulations!

As I understand it, you need to shoot 360 consecutive shots in competition at the Sharpshooter level to get the SS classification, and all matches that contributed to those 360 shots must be shot at the SS level. This means that not only must you shoot at the SS level for both matches (averaged, combined, whatever), but you need to shoot at the SS level for each match individually.

It's possible to have two matches average to SS-level, but for one match to be above and one match to be below the minimum percentage - in this case, the shooter would not get the SS classification, even though the average is SS.

In my experience, once a match score has been considered, it is not considered again (there is no rolling average/rolling consideration) - if a shooter shot a 2700 match at 84% and the next 2700 match at 86% and those scores were 'grouped' together (and the shooter would not get the classification), the next match would be the start of the next 360-shots to be considered - "a fresh set of downs", to use a Football analogy. If the shooter shot an 85% for the next match (so now the shooter's shot 84%, 86%, 85%), the shooter would not get reclassified unless he/she shoots another 85+%.

Thus, to 'guarantee' an upgraded classification, one needs to shoot three consecutive matches (2700s), each at the SS level (or above). that average out to the next higher level to be reclassified.

As an example: when I was pursuing my Master Outdoor classification, I would have a good match and score at the high-Expert level (say, 94%) for a 2700, and then the next 2700 I'd shoot a mid-Master score (96%). My classification was not upgraded. Then I'd shoot another Master-level score and then an Expert-level score which would average out to be a Master-level score, but the individual scores would not both be Master-level scores, and so I wasn't upgraded. I was puzzled until I figured out that it wasn't actually a rolling "average", that scores that were previously considered would NOT be considered again.

Thus, to seal the deal, I shot a 2700 at the Master-level to "clear out" any previous matches whose scores were pending consideration, then shot another 2700 at the Master-level to start the clock on the next 360 shots, and then shot the .22 aggregate of the next 2700 match at the Master-level to make 360 shots (270 shots of the previous 2700 match and 90 shots of the .22-agg).*

Also, individual shots or even the separate .22/CF/.45 aggregates are NOT considered separately when determining percentages; only the overall score in the match is considered. If you shoot 765/900 for .22, 855/900 for CF, and 675/900 for .45, your match total would be 2295/2700, or 85% - nevermind that you shot 85% for .22, 95% for CF, and 75% for .45.

One could "game the system" by shooting only the .22 aggregate of matches (my Bullseye mentor told me that typically shooters shoot well with their .22s, and their CF/.45 scores aren't as good - my own shooting bears this out), but then that would put the shooter at a disadvantage in shooting CF and .45 when required.

Getting the classification also depends on the timing in which the match results are submitted to the NRA, and when the NRA processes those results (I've known the NRA to be very fast at processing results). Delays in the results getting submitted to the NRA could mean that scores from consecutive matches might not be considered in order (I think I've had this happen to me once while pursuing the Master Outdoor classification, but it didn't really matter as I wasn't quite 'there' yet anyways).

*as to why I didn't continue to shoot the CF and .45 portions of the 2700 match, I wasn't really 'feeling it' that day and my .22 score was barely at the Master-level by just a handful of points; my CF and .45 scores would most likely have dragged my score below the Master-level, and I really wanted the Master classification.

Edits: my experience that shooters need to continually post match scores of higher levels and not simply have them average to a higher level to be reclassified is not described at all in the rulebook; according to Rule 19.17 of the NRA Pistol Rulebook, shooters only need to have the previous 360 shots -- which have not already been used in computing a classification average -- average out to a higher level to be reclassified.


Last edited by rvlvrlvr on 9/21/2012, 12:05 am; edited 3 times in total
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by DavidR on 9/20/2012, 4:29 pm

Just so you get the correct information,You should read the 2012 rule book for yourself. here is a link;
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by sklarcpa on 9/20/2012, 8:39 pm

Congratulations on the new card !!!!
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by SMBeyer on 9/20/2012, 10:28 pm

Rob,

Congratulations on your milestone! It's always nice to see the fruit of your hard work. Keep it up!

Scott
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by Rob Kovach on 9/20/2012, 10:42 pm

OK, to try and figure this out, I'll post the scores from my last 2 matches:

I shot an 1800 on August 18th:
22 stage = 802 = 89.1111%
CF stage = 753 = 83.666%
Aggregate=1555 = 86.38%

I shot a 2700 a couple weeks later:
22 Stage = 783 = 87%
CF Stage = 761 = 84.5555%
45 Stage = 732 = 81.333%
Aggregate 2276= 84.296%

If you take the 802-753-783-761 and divide by 3600, it makes it (86.08333%) but I guess I still don't get it.
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by rvlvrlvr on 9/20/2012, 11:58 pm

The rulebook states:

19.17 Reclassification - A competitor who has been classified by the NRA will be reclassified as follows:

(a) A record of all completed (see Rule 19.9) NRA Competition scores fired by a classified competitor (except Postal Match) will be maintained by NRA Headquarters. Only scores not previously used in computing a classification average will be used for reclassification, except as noted in (c) below.

(b) A competitor will be considered for reclassification upward when scores for not less than 360 shots, fired subsequent to the tournament date at which he earned his current classification, have been recorded as prescribed, except that such consideration will not include tournament or league scores until after all scores for the tournament or league competition concerned have been recorded. If the average scores so justifies, he will be reclassified upward accordingly.

(c) A competitor who believes his classification is too high may file a request with the NRA that his classification be lowered. Once a written request is received at NRA an average will be taken using the competitor’s most recent reported shots (1890 shots for outdoor pistol; 1080 shots for indoor pistol) posted subsequent to the last classification or reclassification. If the competitor does not have the minimum number of shots posted at the time of the request, an average will be taken when the minimum numbers of
shots is posted to the competitor’s record. When the average of such shots places the competitor in a lower class, classification will be lowered accordingly.

(d) A reclassified competitor shall be sent a new classification card which will become effective as of the date shown on the card issued by NRA.

Hmm. My previous experience that "all reported scores considered for reclassification shall be at or above the level to be reclassified" is not described anywhere in the rules - and by my reading, especially the part in 19.17(b) that reads...

If the average scores so justifies, he will be reclassified upward accordingly.

...you have been correctly reclassified into the Sharpshooter class.

The 1800 score would have been submitted as a single score (1555/1800 = 86.38%), and then the 2700 score would've been submitted as a single score (2276/2700 = 84.296%). Those two match scores (1555 + 2276) divided by the total points possible (1800 + 2700) would be 85.133% -- they average out to be a Sharpshooter level.
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by 45 MIKE on 9/22/2012, 7:26 am

Good shooting, I just got my Expert card
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by BE Mike on 9/22/2012, 7:54 am

45 MIKE wrote:Good shooting, I just got my Expert card
Sweeeeeeeet!
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by Rob Kovach on 9/22/2012, 9:17 am

Way to go 45 Mike! We'll see you the next time you shoot down here!
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by Wes Lorenz on 9/22/2012, 8:42 pm

Rob,
Congrats!!!!
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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

Post by Ira Latimer on 9/23/2012, 1:34 pm

Congratulations, Rob. When I got my Sharpshooter card in 1962 I felt that I had really entered into serious pistol shooting. Then I went from there to Expert to Master, but now have dropped back to Sharpshooter (age and medical problems). However, I've shot team matches for the past few years at Perry and enjoy it as much as ever.

You're on your way now, and let us know when you get that next card!

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Re: I just got my Sharpshooter card in the mail!!

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