Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

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Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Jerry944T on Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:23 pm

Yes it's true. Able Ammo is the source. They only want $32.95 for a box of 50. Remind me to never buy ammo from those thieves. The good news is that at least they have it in stock which means that pretty soon it may be back on the shelves of folks that aren't out to screw the average shooter.


Last edited by Jerry944T on Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Powderman on Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:44 pm

Oh, yes. I noticed that one, too. Someone should arrest these guys, because they're surely on some type of psychotropic drugs.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by mahoak on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:50 am

They are even more rediculous today. I'll never buy from them again.
Wonder if they sold out of 100 round boxes. Today they list CCI SV 50 round boxes for
CCI
Standard Velocity Rimfire Ammunition 0035, 22 Long Rifle, Round Nose, 40 GR,
1070 fps, 50 Rd/bx

Price: $29.84

Bulk Price: 10+ $28.35 each Bulk Savings of: $14.90


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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by DavidR on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:02 am

Cabelas is gouging too, not as bad but still, 7.95 for a box of Remington hv 22 lr, that did cost 2.59

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by 1joel1 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:11 am

It's sad. My local shooting range wants $29.95 for 50 rounds of Federal. I think they know that it usually costs about $4, but they are gouging and don't seem to care. I think that they need to realize that we have long memories and never buy from them again.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Powderman on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:14 pm

Agreed wholeheartedly. What I'd love to see is a confederation of shooters who would pay collectively for an ad in a local paper; something along the lines of: "Why are you charging so much for ammunition? Why are the hoarders selling ammunition at 5 to 10 times the normal price? Just a reminder--sooner or later, this shortage shall pass--and we have long memories. We will take our money to the people who deal with us fairly."

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Joe Fobes on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:19 pm

I just called Ables to confirm the $22.45 price was for 50 rounds not 500. And it is indeed $22.95 for fifty freakin rounds of CCISV!

New place to boycott!

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Jerry944T on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:56 pm

I wonder is they wear black ski masks when they wait on people.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Powderman on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:16 pm

Joe Fobes wrote:I just called Ables to confirm the $22.45 price was for 50 rounds not 500. And it is indeed $22.95 for fifty freakin rounds of CCISV!

New place to boycott!

Really? REALLY?!

What the heck, even Tenex is cheaper than that!!!

What thieves!!!

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by bullseyebill on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:17 pm

Vote with your wallet. Send them an email to let them know that you will no longer do business with them.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by DeweyHales on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:37 pm

Guys, there is no such thing as gouging. If you don't like the price, move along. If they weren't selling any, they would lower the price.

I would rather people raise the prices and be able to find something in stock than have normal prices when demand is anything but normal. That leads to shortages. Good prices and no availability helps no one.

I would love to be able to find some 115 fmjs at a good price now, but it would first be helpful to find them at all. If people had raised prices, I might be able to locate some.

If you are angry at the prices, remember it, and don't buy from them again. But, someone is happy with those prices and buying or the prices would be lower.

I have been providing a shooter in my area with free ammo knowing that he can pay me back after the shortage.

Ask yourselves, would you be willing to sell all of what you have on hand for what you paid for it? If not, it's tough to be all that upset with people charging a price people are willing to pay.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by C.Perkins on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:50 pm

Dewey;
I sent you a P.M.
Clarence

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Rob Kovach on Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:09 am

meh, I see Dewey's point. Sure I'm about free market principles, BUT you will never catch me buying anything from Ables ever...
Marking a rare item up is one thing but not by a factor of 10x. Not cool.


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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by DeweyHales on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:26 am

Many of these retailers are small operations. They may have been sitting for quite a while with no inventory to sell. Yet, they still have bills to pay, employees to pay, etc. So, if we don't allow them to make enough to keep the lights on, they won't be there when prices return to normal.

Cabela's, Bass Pro Shop, Gander Mountain, Walmart, etc. will all be fine. But, the little guys can get sunk since they don't get a steady stream of stuff when supply gets tight.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Powderman on Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:34 pm

So, if we don't allow them to make enough to keep the lights on, they won't be there when prices return to normal.

Sorry, sir, but I strongly disagree. If they didn't make enough "to keep the lights on" before the ammo run, why would they gouge now? To make more money?

People like fairness and honesty, along with a good fair deal. I have no problems paying a bit more for a local store to make a profit, and to keep them in business. I do, however, have a big problem when some company jacks the price up by 300 to 500% of normal retail to take advantage of a bad situation. And I will show my displeasure with my business and my discretionary income--as in, spending it somewhere else--like Midway and Graf's, who refuse to raise their prices, as well as Powder Valley Inc.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by DeweyHales on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:44 pm

Powderman wrote:
So, if we don't allow them to make enough to keep the lights on, they won't be there when prices return to normal.

Sorry, sir, but I strongly disagree. If they didn't make enough "to keep the lights on" before the ammo run, why would they gouge now? To make more money?

People like fairness and honesty, along with a good fair deal. I have no problems paying a bit more for a local store to make a profit, and to keep them in business. I do, however, have a big problem when some company jacks the price up by 300 to 500% of normal retail to take advantage of a bad situation. And I will show my displeasure with my business and my discretionary income--as in, spending it somewhere else--like Midway and Graf's, who refuse to raise their prices, as well as Powder Valley Inc.

Stores cannot gouge. People are under no obligation to buy if they don't want to buy. Gouging is a word people use if they don't like a price that other people are willing to pay.

Under normal conditions, a store can make their money on volume of units sold. So, let's say they make a nickel on each box of 50 rounds. Sell enough, and they can pay their bills. Suppose now, the distributors are only sending one tenth their normal allotment of ammo. The retailer needs to make a lot more per unit. If not, they cannot pay their bills.

I understand that you feel like the prices are unfair. Do you refute that people are buying now at these prices? If people weren't buying, the prices would come down.

MidwayUSA, Graf's and Powder Valley don't have anything in stock in terms of reloading supplies like normal. Midway can weather this. They have other items to sell to tide them through this disruption. Graf's and Powder Valley will have a harder time given that they have nothing to sell and bills to pay. Suppose Powder Valley never raised prices and went bankrupt because of it. Who does that help?

You say that people like fairness and honesty. In what way is charging a price that people voluntarily pay unfair or dishonest? If people weren't buying at the higher prices, the stores would lower prices.

You are trying to argue against Economics. Until someone appoints a pricing Czar, companies will be free to move prices. Maybe 0bama will appoint someone soon. Maybe it will be one of the guys in this thread.

Ultimately, transactions only happen between willing buyers and sellers. If you don't want to buy, don't. But, disparaging a retailer for running their business as they see fit doesn't help anyone.

Powderman wrote:Oh, yes. I noticed that one, too. Someone should
arrest these guys, because they're surely on some type of psychotropic
drugs.

As an aside, psychotropic drugs aren't illegal. In fact, over 10% of the US adult population is on a psychotropic medication.

We don't begrudge people medicines for other medical conditions. We shouldn't begrudge people these medicines either.

Lunesta for sleep, Neurontin for peripheral neuropathy, and phenobarbital for seizure all fall within this classification.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Powderman on Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:58 pm

What you are describing is (I believe) a basic model for business success. Buy at low (wholesaler) prices, sell at a higher (retail) price; thus, a profit is made. The supplier is happy, because they make money--enough to keep the business running and stocked, and the consumer is happy because they purchased goods that they desire at what they believe is a good price.

Surely, if a person is selling (as an example) socks; can market them as having some very desirable attributes ("You'll never get flat feet from wearing these socks!!!") that prove reliable--and the person can sell these socks for $100 a pair when other retailers are getting much less for them--then it is a good business model for that instance.

In this case though--speaking about ammunition here--is it the right thing to do?

If I find a wad of money on the sidewalk, I am under no obligation to return it or to attempt to find the owner. Legally, I am under absolutely no burden to do so.

My honor, however, dictates otherwise. I will attempt to find the owner; if, after reasonable attempts I have not located the owner--hey, I have some mad money!

I could send out my pre-number N-frame Smith and Wesson (the Model 27 before it was named) and have it professionally refinished. I can then possibly sell it as a 95% to 100% gun.

My honor, however, dictates otherwise.

And, I could easily have purchased tons of .22LR ammunition and then turned around and sold it, right now, for exorbitant prices. People will pay for it--just like I was recently offered $3000, cash on the table, for my used but well cared for Colt LE6920. I told the person who made the offer that, if I were interested in selling, I would only charge him $1200 for the rifle, and $300 for the Aimpoint Comp M2 on it--because they were used. Why?

Because it is the right thing to do. It is honest, and a fair deal.

At least, that is, to me.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by DeweyHales on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Powderman, you didn't address any of my questions.

If you run a business, selling for profit is the right thing to do if you want to stay in business. These sellers aren't marketing the ammo as anything special. They are only marketing it as in stock and for sale.

Why would selling ammo be any different than selling socks?

Little retailers cannot get a regular supply of anything currently. They also cannot run their businesses on volume if they cannot get regular supplies of lots of volume.

Where exactly can you purchase tons of .22 ammunition now? I would like to place an order. Please send me the name and address of the business. Or, help us all out and post the information for the people on this board. I know many here are looking for ammunition.

Did you sell the Colt? If you didn't sell the Colt, I don't see how your example applies. Tell the person that made you the offer that Walmart is selling that model of Colt for $1100 new when in stock. It would seem that your definition of gouging may apply to selling a used rifle for $100 more than the price of the same model new.

I would be willing to wager that I and others on this board are willing to purchase anything you have that you would like to sell at pre-panic prices. This market disruption has taught me that even though I had a lot, I don't have enough.

I certainly don't mean any disrespect. But, none of us should tell a business how they should operate when their customers are happy. I see lots of guys locally offering items for sale at huge markup. These are individuals and not businesses. One guy was offering 100 primers for $25. Later, he lowered the price to $10. I guess no one was buying.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Powderman on Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:48 am

I wish I knew where to buy even POUNDS of .22 ammo. I REALLY do need some!!

I meant no slight with my last post. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wish that companies would do business with the same spirit that I have come to know exists in the Bullseye community. And you're right--if the price is too high, no one will buy.

Still, I subscribe to doing business for the long haul, and not for immediate profit-taking. Will it make money faster? Probably not.

When I used to sell insurance, the guy that broke me into the business told me something that I found was very true: Out of every ten prospective customers, there were two that would buy anything you put in front of them. Those are your bread and butter.

Conversely, at the other end, there are two who would not buy certified 99.99 fine gold bullion at $1 per ingot. You'll never sell them.

There are six in the middle--and those are the people who make the difference between pork and beans or prime rib for dinner.

The folks who sell at pre-panic prices may not sell too much right now, because they don't have too much in stock--and when it gets in, it's gone. However, the people who are sitting on the sidelines waiting for a chance to buy some .22 at a fair price are not only sitting and waiting--they're watching and taking notes.

And when the panic dies down--as I hope it will--those folks will remember the retailers who are doing it right. They will buy from these retailers--and they'll buy a lot more than just .22 ammo.

The good will of the people you're marketing to is paramount to staying in business. At least, that's what I have learned.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Virgil Kane on Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:56 am

Powderman wrote:

The good will of the people you're marketing to is paramount to staying in business. At least, that's what I have learned.


I've had my own business for 32 years. There are 3 things that keep it going in rough times.
Ethics, character and honesty
Everything else is just dribble coming out of a turkeys butt.
I despise people that take advanage of the public and will not do business with them.
Making a profit is one thing, holding the shooting public hostage is another.


Virgil

BTW every little ma & pa gun store I know of sells more that just 22 ammo. There is rifle ammo, 308,30-06, 25-06 270 etc avalible at the same prices of around $20 a box for cheapy Rem and Win. Shotgun shells likewise are avalible unless you just have to have the latest greatest 000 buck rounds. Pleanty of bird shot both lead and steel by the case. So I don't want to hear how some small ma & pa shop is going to go out of business without selling their last few boxes of CCI SV for $32 a box of 50. That's all BS.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Carbide on Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:52 pm

If Able Ammo can get $32 for CCI LR. good for him...he's not running a charity.

Those that are whining and complaining just wasn't smart enough to stock up last year.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Jerry944T on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:25 pm

Well Carbide I think I'll disagree with you. Since I was the OP it is interesting to see people's reaction to Able ammunition and their tactics.
I have plenty of ammo and if I didn't I have enough friends from whom to borrow. That's the way good shooting buddies treat each other. Luckily I belong to a club that is still selling CCi for their normal price of $3.50 a box. They have enough to support their members for the summer since they only sell to members.

My problem is a company clearly trying to take advantage of a situation. It illustrates a very poor business model in my opinion. Obviously no one has to buy from them although for the life of me I can't understand why anyone would buy CCI standard velocity for more than the price of Tenex which is available.

Regardless shooters have a long memory. When ammo is again available and you can buy CCI at a reasonable price where are you going to buy it? At Able or an establishment that treated their customers with a degree of respect. Good will is a valuable business asset.

For me that's an easy decision.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Virgil Kane on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:56 pm

Carbide wrote:If Able Ammo can get $32 for CCI LR. good for him...he's not running a charity.

Those that are whining and complaining just wasn't smart enough to stock up last year.

That's just a terribly wrong assumption on your part in both sentences along with a terrible attitude towards your fellow shooters.


Virgil

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by Powderman on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:30 pm

I just got sickened all over again. I actually called Able Ammo--I mean, hey, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, right? After all, I could use a 325 pack of Federal Auto Match. I could practice with my Buckmark or my Ruger Competition Model, and save my small store of CCI SV and T22 forf competition.

Right?

$119.25 for a box of 325 rounds is a misprint...right?

No, it isn't.

I'm sorry. That is nowhere near good business practice. I hope their product rots on the shelves.

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Re: Wow! I found CCI Standard Velocity in stock...

Post by 1joel1 on Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:18 pm

This is just Greed, pure and simple. Name one good thing about that! What goes around, comes around.

Joel


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