Failure to feed

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Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:44 am

I was able to get my hands on some Zero .45 cal 185 gr. SWC bullets which I loaded into Starline brass. I am using a Colt Gold Cup series 8 with a Kart barrel. I am having a problem with the leading edge of the bullet hanging up between the ramp and the barrel causing a failure to feed. If I rack the slide the bullet will feed, otherwise I am getting 2 or 3 FTF's in a string of 5. I chamfered the tip of the bullet with a bastard file and the problem went away completely. I was also told that my magazine spring needs to be lightened up. I tried a lighter spring and the problem persisted. The bastard file trick fixes the problem, but I imagine it will lead to a lot of inconsistencies in accuracy. The bullet is crimped to a .470, and the shoulder stands .033 out of the case. OAL is 1.256. I used other brands of bullets using the same specs and have not encountered this problem. The Zero bullet seems to have a much sharper, less chamfered leading edge.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:58 am

Show us a picture of the bullet. Try crimping them to .468 You can recrimp a sample of them and see if that works.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:19 am

I don't think the problem is with the crimp because its the tip of the bullet that is snagging on the top of the feed ramp and the bottom of the barrel below the chamber. I'll try and figure out how to post a picture.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Dave C. on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:23 am

Your recoil spring may be too strong for the load. Is your slide locking back on the empty magazine?

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:26 am

The slide is locking back.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by BE Mike on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:05 am

I would try seating the bullets just a hair deeper in the case.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by DavidR on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:33 am

Your problem is in your loading, crimp is too light and OAL way to long, I have tested and shot many hundreds of this load, load the bullet with only a small amount of the shoulder showing above the case edge, about the thickness of a thumbnail and crimp to .468-.469 and not only will your problems go away your bullets will with proper guidance find the X ring.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:29 pm

DavidR wrote:Your problem is in your loading, crimp is too light and OAL way to long, I have tested and shot many hundreds of this load, load the bullet with only a small amount of the shoulder showing above the case edge, about the thickness of a thumbnail and crimp to .468-.469 and not only will your problems go away your bullets will with proper guidance find the X ring.

I will give it a try. Sounds like I need to trim the cases, they are .893 some are .895. Time to hit the bench and do some tweaking. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by DavidR on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:10 pm

My cases are .890, seat the bullet to .038 above the case edge and crimp to .468, Mine measure around 1.248-1.250, you never want a 45 acp round over 1.250 or as you have feeding issues can occur. Also nobody trims 45 acp cases, they do not stretch like rifle, instead over many many uses they tend to shrink a little. If your cases are that long I would just seat the bullet a little deeper as long as there is still some shoulder above the case edge and the oal is 1.250 or under it should feed fine. Here is a pic of a 185 swc , H&G 68 style like it should look.


Last edited by DavidR on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by sixftunda on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:10 pm

One other helpful hint. Check your dies every 100 rounds and clean any lead and wax buildup. It will affect your OAL. I switched to Dillon dies so I could clean them out without affecting my settings.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:59 pm

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Steve B on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:14 pm

Are you using flat or round follower magazines?


Last edited by Steve B on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:51 pm

I don't trim my brass, and I run a 1.230 OAL with that bullet and I don't have any feeding problems at all.
Ditto on what David R said. Tighter crimp and shorter OAL. I don't have nearly as much shoulder above the brass like David R does.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Colt711 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:47 pm

David R has provided the roadmap. Follow it and I bet the problems will disappear.
Ron

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:15 am

Steve B wrote:Are you using flat or round follower magazines?
I've tried both flat and round and have found the round to be more problematic.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:19 am

I've tried the 1.250 OAL and the problem cleared up by 50%. I will bring them to 1.230 and see if this does the trick. Thanks everyone for all the advice.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Jerry944T on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:42 am

Don't measure the OAL. Measure from the base of the brass to the shoulder of the bullet. The magic number for me seems to be .925.

Since my seating die seats by bearing on that shoulder I can change brands of bullets and everything (4 different .45s ) seem to be happy.

Even if the bullet is supposedly from the same mold profiles and lengths seem to vary by different manufacturers.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by pergoman on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:52 am

My suggestion would be to try different magazines. I have certain 1911's that will only handle certain loadings reliably with Checkmate mags. I was inspired to experiment again last night with a 70 Series Gold Cup and once again proved my point. I shot a box through 2 different Checkmate mags without a single hickup. I had a hard time getting 5 in a row through Chip McCormic and Wilson mags.
The timing with some mags is just "off" for your setup. The round is being driven into that tiny gap between the ramp and barrel rather than the nose being slightly higher or lower at that point in the cycle. Different mags have different lips which change the tilt and release times in the cycle.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:04 pm

Yesterday, I ran a box of 50 through with no failures. Thanks for all the input everyone.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by ddivins on Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:08 pm

KCKral wrote:Yesterday, I ran a box of 50 through with no failures. Thanks for all the input everyone.

What was the resolution for you?

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:27 pm

I brought the OAL to 1.245 and I used a de-burring tool like a pencil sharpener to slightly chamfer the leading edge of the bullet tip.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Colt711 on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:19 pm

The .45 Auto SWC s/be measured to the shoulder, not the nose, as nose shapes and lengths vary. Compare the #68 vs the #130. My 45 seater dies are bored so as to contact the bullet at the shoulder (only). As previously noted it is important to keep the die clean as debris buildup will change seating depth but seating thru die/shoulder contact is less sensitive to this buildup as the die has a bit more clearance.
Another advantage of this method is the ability to load various SWC bullets w/o changing the die setting. This is of course true as long as the die clears the longer nose shapes.
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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Colt711 on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:40 pm

KCKral wrote:I. I am having a problem with the leading edge of the bullet hanging up between the ramp and the barrel causing a failure to feed.
KC
Does the barrel overhang the ramp? Even just a little?
Ron

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Rob Kovach on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:43 pm

Colt 711,
Since KCKral was using the same bullet as my known good loads, he could use the OAL that I am. The handy thing with loading SWC's is you can easily see if your OAL is in the ballpark by how much lead you can see above the brass.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Colt711 on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:58 pm

Rob,
But he's not usin' the same gun. I w/be interested in a smith's comments after examining the barrel-ramp fit. I don't think a bullet should catch there. What do you think?
Ron

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Re: Failure to feed

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