Failure to feed

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Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:44 am

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I was able to get my hands on some Zero .45 cal 185 gr. SWC bullets which I loaded into Starline brass. I am using a Colt Gold Cup series 8 with a Kart barrel. I am having a problem with the leading edge of the bullet hanging up between the ramp and the barrel causing a failure to feed. If I rack the slide the bullet will feed, otherwise I am getting 2 or 3 FTF's in a string of 5. I chamfered the tip of the bullet with a bastard file and the problem went away completely. I was also told that my magazine spring needs to be lightened up. I tried a lighter spring and the problem persisted. The bastard file trick fixes the problem, but I imagine it will lead to a lot of inconsistencies in accuracy. The bullet is crimped to a .470, and the shoulder stands .033 out of the case. OAL is 1.256. I used other brands of bullets using the same specs and have not encountered this problem. The Zero bullet seems to have a much sharper, less chamfered leading edge.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Rob Kovach on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:14 pm

Maybe so but his original OAL was a MILE too long. I would be interested to know if he shortens it up even closer to my spec if the rounds will feed without the chamfering that he is doing. He's still .015" longer OAL than I am.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Colt711 on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:44 pm

Rob,
Yours is workin, so were it me my 1st try after your post would have been to load to your spec. Makes sense to me!
Ron

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Kermit Workman on Wed May 08, 2013 9:23 pm

As a note I had a pistol that was doing the same thing. A 200 gn. SWC would hit the bottom lip of the barrel throat and lock up. The contour of the frame of the pistol would not allow the barrel to set down far enough for the bullet to hit the barrel throat. Jack Best removed metal from the outside of the barrel at the chamber. The metal was removed at 5&7 o'clock beside the bottom lugs. That made the pistol 100% reliable. Many years later the barrel was replaced and the same thing had to be done to make the pistol reliable.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Wed May 08, 2013 9:54 pm

Thanks Kerm

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Thu May 09, 2013 8:45 am

Rob Kovach wrote:I don't trim my brass, and I run a 1.230 OAL with that bullet and I don't have any feeding problems at all.
Ditto on what David R said. Tighter crimp and shorter OAL. I don't have nearly as much shoulder above the brass like David R does.

Rob, I loaded a few rounds to your specs and a few with even a shorter OAL and still had feed issues. I also changed out the magazine springs and that didn't clear up the problem.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Kermit Workman on Thu May 09, 2013 11:13 am

Let me add a couple other suggestions.
The problem may go away if you use a 200 gn. bullet due to the nose profile. A different magazine with different "style" of feeding lips may also work. Some magazines have a defined release point but others have a straight taper for the lips of the magazine.
The 185 gn. bullet is much harder to get to feed reliably as opposed to the 200 gn.
I will also add the the bottom outside of the barrel and the top of the frame needs to be clean. This will allow the barrel to set all the way down on the frame.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by BE Mike on Thu May 09, 2013 12:11 pm

KCKral wrote:
Rob Kovach wrote:I don't trim my brass, and I run a 1.230 OAL with that bullet and I don't have any feeding problems at all.
Ditto on what David R said. Tighter crimp and shorter OAL. I don't have nearly as much shoulder above the brass like David R does.

Rob, I loaded a few rounds to your specs and a few with even a shorter OAL and still had feed issues. I also changed out the magazine springs and that didn't clear up the problem.
Has the feed ramp of your Colt been polished? If so, I would look at changing the lips of the magazine to get a later release of the cartridge. I had a LB pistol that just would not reliably function with a short-nosed 185 grain bullet (not the one you're using). I just never used any of those bullets and the gun functioned fine.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by DavidR on Thu May 09, 2013 4:02 pm

Okay, the only other thing ive run into that caused your issue was the design of the follower in the magazine, i never use the flat type anymore due to failure to feed issues. If you try a metalform or a wilson combat that has the rounded follower you might cure the problem. See the pic, if you have feeding issues with wadcutters and your barrel is throated correctly, then the second mag from the left with the rounded follower is what you need to try. That style will feed any type bullet.


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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Thu May 09, 2013 4:17 pm

David R. My magazines have the rounded followers like the one you mention, and the feed lips have been altered.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by DavidR on Thu May 09, 2013 5:29 pm

Ok, I re-read your first post, you say if you hand rack the slide the rounds will chamber, but not when you shoot, that sounds like youhave to much resistance to the powder charge your using with the recoil spring you have. Either go up on the powder charge or go down on the recoil spring poundage and it should function, Its hard to say, not knowing what LB. recoil spring your using or the size of the one you say you tried, or what powder and how much you are using. but if you did not try a 11lb or even a 10 then that could be the answer. I run that type load and use a 11lb spring, mine will not run them consistently with a 12.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Thu May 09, 2013 5:40 pm

Dave,
I have had the feeding issue when given the command to load, also. Thankfully, that's when it happened on the line at last Sunday's 2700 during the last RF match. I was able to correct it before we shot the string.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by DavidR on Thu May 09, 2013 5:41 pm

What recoil are you using and what powder and load?

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Thu May 09, 2013 5:44 pm

Not sure on the spring...11 maybe. 4.0 BE

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Thu May 09, 2013 5:52 pm

Dave, I've used other 185 SWC from different manufacturers (lower quality) and never had the feed issues. With supplies being so scarce now, beggars can't be choosers. At least the chamfering technique I use keeps me on the line and shooting.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by DavidR on Fri May 10, 2013 9:54 am

Since you dont know the spring you have, get a 10 and try it. Plenty of people use that bullet with no problem, you have a gun issue not a bullet issue, if a 10 lb spring doesnt fix it then i think who ever fitted that kart barrel didnt get it done right and you should seek out a good 1911 pistol smith and have it checked.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Fri May 10, 2013 12:35 pm

I agree with it being a pistol issue, and I know of a good smith within striking distance. That's the next step.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by Colt711 on Fri May 10, 2013 8:07 pm

A strategy might be to cut the recoil spring. The old AMTU pistol smith guide instructs to "cut one coil at the time until reliable functioning is obtained."
We don't do it that way today because of the springs available BUT you could follow that instruction and when done call Wolf and give them wire dia & the no of coils on the cut spring and they can tell you which weight to use. Just an idea.
Is there an experienced shooter around who can evaluate the gun?
Ron

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by CFPlinker on Mon May 27, 2013 3:46 pm

When I got started in bullseye the wadcutter gun I bought would not feed 185 grain cast bullets. I tried loads from 3.5 to 5 grains of Bullseye, thenI cut the recoil spring down a turn at a time until it was just sticking out of the slide when uncompressed. Still no luck and it was having failures to feed about once a magazine.

I finally realized that it was trying to tell me that it didn't like Bullseye. I switched to a slower powder -700X- and the feed problems went away. During the first can of powder I dedided that I didn/t like the way it metered so I switched to 230 ( did I say that this was a long time ago?). It functioned fine and the powder was easy to meter. Then only change I needed to make was to use 231 when 230 was discontinued.

I attributed the need for the slower powder to the fact that the slide had, and still has, a Bomar rib on it and the additional mass of the slide made it want the slower powder.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by KCKral on Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:56 pm

I had a smith do some work to the barrel ramp and the loads I was having trouble with are feeding just fine now.  Problem corrected.

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Re: Failure to feed

Post by DavidR on Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:38 pm

thanks for the update!

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Re: Failure to feed

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