Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

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Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by WVBE Shooter on Fri May 24, 2013 2:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

I ran across this ad while looking for some 22LR today.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-0762

We can buy the best ammunition that ELEY offers for $.40 a round.

I have never purchased anything from Cheaper Than Dirt, and am proud to say never will.

I realize that most people would say, "If you don't like it then don't buy it!" which I agree with.

My response would be that when all this is over we should remember ads like this because there are plenty of

other companies that are not gouging their customers that deserve our business.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by DeweyHales on Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:57 pm

CTD did the same thing with prices after 0bama was elected. This is their standard operating procedure.

Occasional, recreational shooters seem to be their key customer segment.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:59 pm

Dewey:

The part you are missing about Cheaper than Dirt and the other "gougers" is the amount that they inflate their margins.

Retailers that we know report that the wholesale price is about 10% more than pre-panic pricing, while the "gougers" prices are well over 700% more than the pre-panic price. That's our gripe.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by DeweyHales on Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:54 pm

There are CTD hate threads all over this and every other major gun board on the internet. It's been that way since 2008, possibly even earlier.

I get it. People don't like the way an independent company chooses to run their business. People feel that their margins are too high. Places with supply are able to exercise almost monopoly-like control of prices. That's a harsh reality.

I'm sure each of us does something that other people don't like. One of mine is posting some economic reality in these threads. I understand the frustration of realizing a nickel ain't worth a dime anymore.

However, there are many new gun owners since Newtown. I hope a lot of them become shooters. Ranges in my area are at full capacity with numerous new ranges springing up all over. All of these new shooters will need ammo. Because of this increase in aggregate demand, because of the capacity restraints at ammo plants, because of the ever dwindling value of the dollar, etc., prices are likely to stay high regardless of "gouging." Or, we will be stuck with shortages and backorders. Or, both.

I would rather see "gouging" prices than shortages. I recently paid twice the previous rate for 77gr Noslers. I gladly did it because I wanted to shoot a 50 shot leg match. I only needed 30 bullets (80s at the long line). I would have paid way more than double. High prices but availability kept me in the game. A shortage would have saved me a bunch of money, but I would have missed the match. That's a losing proposition.

If you travel for matches, gas, hotel, range fees, quickly add up to more than the match ammo costs. Dry firing and visualization can help make up some of the lost practice time on the range.

Each of us will have to pick an acceptable pain point if we expect to keep shooting. I have heard numerous people say they intend to stock up at Perry. IIRC, people said the same thing about primers in 2008. The problem was the same then as now. Arrivals at Perry were greeted with higher prices and shortages.

I hope Perry and retail stores soon look like the land of milk and honey. But, I am not holding my breath.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by WVBE Shooter on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Today Midway sold Federal Value packs at just under $20.00. Can someone explain to me why they have not increased their price to what CTD is selling it at? I'll tell you why, because they are trying to support their customers during the shortage. So I ask you who would you buy from in the future based on the way these two companies have behaved during the shortage. Why put outrageous prices on ammo if you have it sell? Why not sell the ammo at reasonable prices so people will buy it?

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:03 am

I would rather see "gouging" prices than shortages

You cant have gouging without the shortages. Your logic is flawed and tiresome.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by DeweyHales on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:22 am

Rob Kovach wrote:
I would rather see "gouging" prices than shortages

You cant have gouging without the shortages. Your logic is flawed and tiresome.

Feel free to quit reading my posts if you like, Rob. I'm an Economist by training and a Forecaster by profession. I work in an extremely high margin area. So, I love discussions like this.

You can indeed have price "gouging" without supply shortages. You define gouging as margins that are too high. People routinely pay wildly different prices for all kinds of items without shortages. Cars would be an example. Poorly informed consumers can always be "gouged." There are guys all over this country paying $700 for Glocks and $100 for FFL transfers. If these consumers shopped around a bit, they could do markedly better. There are people that buy branded pharma products where generics exist. They pay more for what the FDA says are the same products. By your margin definition, "gouging" happens all over the place even where shortages don't exist.

Keep in mind that I didn't pay 700% of prior retail. I paid 200% of prior retail. I would have gladly paid more if necessary. The price of the bullets was well under the remainder of what I spent to compete in my match.

My logic is that places with no stock to sell don't allow me to get supplies no matter what price I think is fair. My willingness to pay has nothing to do with what you define as fair. Places that charge more are likely to have supply for people that are willing to pay the asking price. That seems simple and logical to me.

Months ago, I ordered supplies at regular price. My order was put on backorder. The bullets arrived today. My match was Saturday. By paying "gouging" prices for a minimal amount of bullets, I was able to compete and shoot my personal best. "Gouging" prices kept me in the game versus backorders.

Luckily, this is America. We are each free to do as we see fit.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:53 am

Fine Dewey, buy stuff from the gougers. It's a free country, and it's your money.

You can indeed have price "gouging" without supply shortages. You define gouging as margins that are too high. People routinely pay wildly different prices for all kinds of items without shortages. Cars would be an example. Poorly informed consumers can always be "gouged."

I defined gouging as using a temporary supply shortage as an excuse to increase the margin percentage much higher than the margin percentage during normal supply conditions.

The point of this thread is to better inform shooters that don't want to get gouged, and to allow shooters who are opposed to such practices to reward such businesses with a boycott of their products.

The other people on this thread who don't want to talk about your irritating economic training, and high margin trade practices have resolved to patronize vendors who haven't used the limited supply to damage the sport shooting community. We don't care if you have a PhD in high margin trade economic gouging techniques. You are ruining the spirit of this thread by your pompous justifications of the gouging.

You are right that in America, we can do as we see fit. I see fit to call you out for trolling every thread that categorizes gouging as a negative trade practice.

If you want to sing the praises of gouging, start a new thread on that topic. This thread is about how gouging sucks.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by Colt711 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:51 am

We can all be happy for Dewey's happiness! He gets to post all that "dismal science" stuff and have the joy of paying high prices too! In normal times nobody would read, let alone comment, on it!
I worked in a mfg facility in which one of the major depts. was a "mix room". One day the Controller, a good friend and one who had spent his entire career in our business, confidentially asked what they did in the "mix room"?!!?
They look at the numbers, and lecture us with all their pet theories but it doesn't always fit into the real world.
Ron

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by DavidR on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:42 am

Im sure Deweys posts bring comfort to those that SCREWED themselves  by buying from gougers like CTD. At least till they see the ads for a case of cci sv they paid 1200.00 for on sale at dicks or midway for 249.00  Laughing

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by DeweyHales on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:44 pm

DavidR wrote:Im sure Deweys posts bring comfort to those that SCREWED themselves  by buying from gougers like CTD. At least till they see the ads for a case of cci sv they paid 1200.00 for on sale at dicks or midway for 249.00  Laughing

That's the beauty of prices that maintain supply.  No one has to buy huge quantities.  They can actually buy just enough to get themselves through the period until lower cost supply returns.  If no one has supply and without charity, shooters are out of the game no matter what they were willing to pay. 

I'll start a thread in General Discussion so that I won't bother the guys here anymore.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by WVBE Shooter on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:34 pm

Look we all understand economics Dewey, you are not the only one of us that has graduated from college.  We also understand that you are willing and have the means to pay a 200% premium for ammunition.  You are trying to defend a company that not only gouges their customers, but also refused to sell AR-15's just after the Newtown Tragedy.  Either you support the shooting community or you don't.  That is the point of this post as it was I who started it.  We have choices when buying products for our hobby.  I will not buy from CTD even if that means not shooting for a while becuase i do not like their marketing practices.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by DeweyHales on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:03 pm

WVBE Shooter,

You didn't mention the AR-15 point in your original post.  You attributed your distaste to "gouging."  In the past, I have purchased a few Remington 700 deals at Dick's.  Dick's no longer sells ARs because of Newtown.  For that reason, I won't buy guns at Dick's.  I have never purchased from CTD.  I don't intend to now either. 

The Nosler 77s I overpayed for were $35 for 100 shipped.  For being able to shoot a leg match, it was worth it to me.  I have not spent an exorbitant amount of money.   

People in this thread have obscured the lines between ethical principles, economics and marketing practices.  My points have all been strictly about economics.  I do enjoy a good economic discussion.  I don't support CTD's pricing.  Yet, people seem to be lashing out at me personally like I somehow am responsible.  I just support a retailer's right to charge as they see fit.  And, raising prices isn't always a negative thing. 

Based on our local ammo market, our largest retailer sells out in two hours each week.  This week, it took three hours.  The guys at the store thought that represented improvement.  I'm not so sure.   

I have a few shooters that I am getting started all out of my personal supplies.  I am working to cultivate their interest.  I'm running through my supplies a lot faster than I anticipated.  But, a group of us in this area are banding together to keep each other shooting.  That's what our community is all about.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:36 pm

We lashed out because we discussed something that was bugging us and you used an academic economics argument to disqualify our discussion.  That's annoying.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

Post by DavidR on Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:10 pm

Its all good everyone has their own opinion, little of what any of us say here matters, but those opposed to these type business dealings will speak volumes in our never doing business with them again.

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Re: Cheaper Than Dirt ultimate retail Gougers!!!!

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