5" vs 6" 1911

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5" vs 6" 1911

Post by WVBE Shooter on Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:34 pm

What is the the groups opinion on a 5" vs. 6" barrel for bullseye competition?

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:59 pm

Both are great.  There is no significant difference in accuracy.  More interchangeability with the 5".

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by JLK on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:18 pm

I am the original owner of a Jim Clark Sr. era Heavy Slide (5") and Long Heavy Slide (6").
I have always preferred the feel and shot better with the Long Heavy Slide.
It's been my dream to one day have a 5" slide with a 6" barrel.
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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by DavidR on Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:21 am

Long slide takes some getting use too, higher nose weight and you have to up your loads a tenth of a grain or so over a 5'' because of the extra weight. Ive been shooting my Accu-Lock long slide for a season and a half and just now getting use to it.

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by JLK on Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:15 pm

I shoot the same load in both guns with no apparent difference in function or accuracy.
In the gun's original configuration with full length steel Bo-Mar ribs
the nose heaviness was a little more noticeable.  Now with the alloy
sight ribs the difference between the two guns is not hard for me to
get used to.
That's my Long Heavy Slide in my avatar.
Like they say YMMV.
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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by WVBE Shooter on Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:01 pm

JLK and DavidR are you using a bull barrel or bushing barrel?
I continue to struggle with changing my bull barrel out for a bushing barrel.  

I am new to the sport having only shot 5 matches and I find myself lacking confidence in the accuracy of my 1911.

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:45 pm

I shoot a 5" with a bushing barrel, and a buddy who should be getting his expert classification shoots a non-bushing 5" barrel.  Both can be plenty accurate.

There are some really good Bullseye shooters in West Virginia who can help you verify if your .45 has an accuracy problem.  If it is having an accuracy problem, I'm certain the issue can be fixed.

What is giving you doubt that the gun isn't shooting accurately?  Usually there isn't any doubt.

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by Schaumannk on Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:59 pm

WVBE Shooter wrote:JLK and DavidR are you using a bull barrel or bushing barrel?
I continue to struggle with changing my bull barrel out for a bushing barrel.  

I am new to the sport having only shot 5 matches and I find myself lacking confidence in the accuracy of my 1911.
Have you benched your gun, with sandbags to see if the perceptions are real?

I shot much worse my first outdoor match than I had indoors.  Something about the sights/dot moving around on the fifty yard target causes many people to stall on the trigger, and make a host of other errors.

Also, unless you are shooting factory, loads that work fine at the 25 yard line, may not necessarily work well at the fifty.   So, what are you shooting, and how are you testing your gun?

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by WVBE Shooter on Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:29 am

I have bench tested my gun off sand bags and a 3 shot group is about 2" at 50 yards.  I am shooting a LSWC with 4.2 grains of bullseye powder.  It is probably the shooter and not the gun.  My 25 yard line gets more accurate which is why I always second guess the bull barrel because I am the only one at my club that shoots a 6" bull barrel longslide.  But I am also the newest shooter as well.  Maybe I am laying too much blame on the gun and not the shooter.

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by Schaumannk on Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:04 am

WVBE Shooter wrote:I have bench tested my gun off sand bags and a 3 shot group is about 2" at 50 yards.  I am shooting a LSWC with 4.2 grains of bullseye powder.  It is probably the shooter and not the gun.  My 25 yard line gets more accurate which is why I always second guess the bull barrel because I am the only one at my club that shoots a 6" bull barrel longslide.  But I am also the newest shooter as well.  Maybe I am laying too much blame on the gun and not the shooter.

 That sounds like a good analysis.    A lot of newer shooters struggle with trying to stabilize the dot, because at fifty yards, it can look like it is moving all over the target, and you lose confidence in your hold.  Then you start moving your wrist and dressing up the shot.  

      Do a lot of dry firing and worry more about smooth quick triggering than the dot.   Things wont improve over night, but they will improve if you develop a shot plan, that eliminates, or at least minimizes thinking about when to pull the trigger.

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by JLK on Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:26 am

WVBE Shooter wrote:JLK and DavidR are you using a bull barrel or bushing barrel?
I continue to struggle with changing my bull barrel out for a bushing barrel.  

I am new to the sport having only shot 5 matches and I find myself lacking confidence in the accuracy of my 1911.

 WVBE,
My guns have bushings.
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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by tenx9 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:05 am

The true way (and yes there have varying opinions on this) is to use a Ransom Rest to test loads and compare load to load consistency. And of course, 10 shot groups at 50 yards is the measuring stick. Generally, if you can get your gun to shoot 2-2 1/2" then you have something. There has always been a debate as to the Ransom Rest no being able to produce like groups when holding the pistol in your hand. I find this irrevelent as I'm only looking for group size. NRA Action Pistol guys actually use a solid prone position to test their guns.  As a general rule, .45's need to be pushed to shoot accurately at 50yds. You might get away with a wimpy load at 25, usually you'll pay at 50yds. Jacketed bullets seem to do better at 50 as well. Altho the Nosler bullet seems to be in vogue right now, I always favored the Remington 185 match bullet for slowfire. Whatever technique you use, confidence is usually a determining factor. Good luck

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by DavidR on Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:09 am

WVBE Shooter wrote:JLK and DavidR are you using a bull barrel or bushing barrel?
I continue to struggle with changing my bull barrel out for a bushing barrel.  

I am new to the sport having only shot 5 matches and I find myself lacking confidence in the accuracy of my 1911.
 My gun has neither, it is a Accu-Lock, invented and patented by Travis Strahorn, it uses a locking teethed lug system on the slide and barrel end, the gun has no choice except to lock up the same way every time, ransome rest tests were under 1.5'' at 50 yds with match ammo. You can

see and read about it here;
 http://www.accu-lockpistols.com/

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by WVBE Shooter on Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:38 am

DavidR
I have read about the accu-lock previously and really like the idea.
It is kind of a dream pistol if I can someday afford one.

I'm guessing the recoil is a lot better?

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by DavidR on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:20 am

Hardly any felt recoil, if your interested, im friends with the company owners and a dealer for Accu-Lock I can put you in direct contact with the man in charge. They have started a new production and testing program and are getting 50 yard groups consistently in the 1'' range with hand loaded match ammo. They also except trade in guns, and sometimes have used units for sale.

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by WVBE Shooter on Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:38 pm

What are used ones going for?

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by DavidR on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:07 am

This one is the supreme model hand built by Travis Strahan  Accuracy tested by Herschel Anderson and only shot for one season. Comes with two tuned stainless mags and a extra  fitted short trigger. 4550.00, that's about 1100.00 under the cost for a new one.
Test targets for this gun were under 1.5'' @ 50 yards with factory Atlanta Arms 185 FMJ.


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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:55 pm

I have shot a longslide since 1989. I'm building a 5" pistol to replace it now. I'm much older and don't have the hold I used to. I spoke to Zins at Canton this year and asked about his 5" slide pistol with 6" barrel he was thinking about shooting for Perry. He said he wasn't holding good enough to use it and laughed. He shot a 5" at Perry. When I'm holding hard and steady I love it (6"), but easy to let a sloppy shot out of it at 50 yds. Absolutely love it on the shortline because of the extra weight and much less felt recoil. My pistol will function 3.3 gr Dupont P5066 and have shot 200-18x TF. So in my opinion, if you can't hold it rock steady, you'll never shoot it as well as a 5" pistol at 50 yds. And as we all know, 50 yds separates the men from the boys. Or as the old timers said, "you win it at 50 and lose it at 25". Also shot with Zurek in Phoenix this year. I mounted a custom scope mount I made for the old Bomar Mini-rib (keeps the mini-rib, but a weaver base mounts to it for an Aimpoint Micro) on his longslide pistol. He told me during the match that he really had to follow through and hold longer for the 50 yd line in comparison to his 5" pistol. Zurek is probably one of the hardest holders ever to shoot BE. His comment shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt. Obviously the choice is yours!
 
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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

Post by WVBE Shooter on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:13 pm

Jon that is great information and very much appreciated.  I also agree with what Zurek said which is why I think I am having so much trouble at 50yd.  I plan on finishing out the season with my Longslide.  Then trying to sell it so I can purchase a 5" gun.

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Re: 5" vs 6" 1911

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