Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

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Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by 230Ball on 9/14/2013, 9:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

What's your favorite (i.e. reliable) 1911 magazine?
I'm re-entering bullseye comp after nearly two decades and remember that the weakest link with the 1911 was the magazine.  Seems like every string (back then) had an alibi.
I still have my 1911 wad and ball guns which will be forever timeless, but a total smorgasbord of magazines laying around after all of these years.  What's the latest in technology, as well as your favorites?
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by DavidR on 9/21/2013, 9:39 am

From what Jerry says the extractor and the chamber have  much more a role in accuracy than a mag does. A mag needs to load efficiently, then true accuracy is left to how that round is placed in the chamber by the slide and held there by the extractor, then the next steps in accuracy is the consistency  of how those rounds were reloaded or loaded if new.  I have ransomed many loads with many guns and can tell you ransome tests are very hard to get consistent, being the gun is mounted in rubber inserts and many moving mechanical parts that rarely reset to the absolute exact same place after every shot, that coupled with variances in the ammo your results will just show you if the gun will be consistent or not with a average group size after many 10 shot groups. Lots of things add or detract from a 1911s accuracy.
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jerry Keefer on 9/21/2013, 11:32 am

DavidR wrote:From   I have ransomed many loads with many guns and can tell you ransome tests are very hard to get consistent,
I have a very good Bullseye smith friend, who refers to it as the "Random Rest"..SmileSmile It used to drive me crazy.. I have rebuilt more than one gun over the years, because the rest groups were not consistent, yet I  knew the guns were built as well as possible, and the barrel tester groups were good..Then one year just before Perry , a very high level shooter who I had just rebuilt a gun for, was anxious to get it back.. I explained that I was not happy with the groups.. He said, "Send it anyway, I at least need a backup"..A week later he e-mailed me a very, very nice  20 shot 1-1/2 inch group..He said, "I needed to check my RR set up".. I immediately rebuilt the entire rest and concrete base with an additional 1000 pounds of welded in I beam supports, which were then encased in an additional yard of concrete. I also completely reconstructed the wood platform the base screwed to with bolts (no wood screws) thru a laminated/glued, steel re enforced wooden slab.  My problems with the rest and inconsistent grouping disappeared..
Jerry
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by spursnguns on 9/21/2013, 7:26 pm

I'm glad you chimed in, Jerry.  I respect what you bring to the discussion.

From a rest or off-hand aside.  With everything else being constant and with a top notch shooter, and I know you build for them, do you see enough variation in group size or group location to pay attention to what magazines are used in what guns and a which lines?

My experience tells me one thing, but I ain't too old to learn something new.  Thanks.

Jim
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by DavidR on 9/21/2013, 8:40 pm

Jerry could you tell about the extractor mod bob marvel does and what exactly it does for accuracy.
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jerry Keefer on 9/21/2013, 9:45 pm

DavidR wrote:Jerry could you tell about the extractor mod bob marvel does and what exactly it does for accuracy.
It's the disconnector rail on the underside of the slide. I first saw it on gun BoB built for Joey Chambers, about 10 years ago at Perry..It amounts to a groove milled or ground into the rail at an angle, the approx width of the disconnector tip. This  allows the disconnector to be cammed straight down from the top, instead of the slide jamming it down from the side.. It prevents the slide from stalling, slowing down from the extra force required to move the disconnector. Almost everyone at one time or another, has observed a slide stick/stop against the disconnector.. A smoother running slide contributes consistent feeding, especially from the slide lock back/load position. Which is another topic...first round out of the gun from slide lock back.. Almost always out of the group...
In a few days I'll post a pic of the groove.. Not near the shop, presently..  
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jerry Keefer on 9/21/2013, 9:59 pm

spursnguns wrote: do you see enough variation in group size or group location to pay attention to what magazines are used in what guns and a which lines?

My experience tells me one thing, but I ain't too old to learn something new.  Thanks.

Jim
Jim,
I agree with you 100% that magazines make a difference. I was mentioning a few other, often overlooked points, that also effect feeding/grouping..Iam rather fussy with mags. I keep them as clean as possible, and polish and buff the insides and followers. I  even buff the springs,  to eliminate any drag. I use weak springs that exert light  pressure compared to standard springs..the extractor has got to be right to do this, though.
Jerry
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by DavidR on 9/22/2013, 11:22 am

Thanks Jerry looking forward to seeing the pics !
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by DavidR on 9/22/2013, 11:23 am

Oh. Jerry what mags do you consider the best accuracy wise?
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Sa-tevp on 2/17/2015, 11:16 pm

DavidR wrote:Oh. Jerry what mags do you consider the best accuracy wise?

After my first time trying to obtain consistent results with a Ransom Rest today (a lot more physical labor than expected) I am also looking to hear suggestions on which magazines are most accurate at 50 yards. My first shot fliers varied by load apparently, and when using magazines loaded with five rounds and changed at round four, it looked like rounds three and nine liked to go out of the group. I was using my three Checkmate 7 shot hybrids, and my friend's Metalform round follower seemed to give a better group. At this point though, I'm not convinced I am consistent enough and experienced enough with the Ransom Rest to pick a magazine style.
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jerry Keefer on 2/17/2015, 11:50 pm

Sa-tevp wrote:
DavidR wrote:Oh. Jerry what mags do you consider the best accuracy wise?

After my first time trying to obtain consistent results with a Ransom Rest today (a lot more physical labor than expected) I am also looking to hear suggestions on which magazines are most accurate at 50 yards. My first shot fliers varied by load apparently, and when using magazines loaded with five rounds and changed at round four, it looked like rounds three and nine liked to go out of the group. I was using my three Checkmate 7 shot hybrids, and my friend's Metalform round follower seemed to give a better group. At this point though, I'm not convinced I am consistent enough and experienced enough with the Ransom Rest to pick a magazine style.
Well, I have a hand full of Wilson Combat mags that I have worked up for my lady shooter.. and a drawer full of various mags. While Ransom testing, I always try a series of magazines with the gun.. I try to get 4 ea. that shoot the same..I usually work on them all, in some fashion.   Not all magazines are 50 yard mags.. I want the gun to sound and feel like the slide dropped on an empty chamber, as it loads..That's more important than the make...


Last edited by Jerry Keefer on 2/18/2015, 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Ed Hall on 2/18/2015, 9:49 am

Jerry Keefer wrote:...I want to the gun to sound and feel like the slide dropped on an empty chamber, as it loads..That's more important than the make...      
This has always been of interest to me; the difference between, "Chunk!" and "Ker-chunk!"  For me, I've been using two Metalform magazines for many years with good results.  I haven't really tried others, because, "These ain't broke!"  Last year, NRA gave away a new magazine with the entry packets, but I haven't evaluated it yet...

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by rvlvrlvr on 2/18/2015, 1:28 pm

Ed Hall wrote:
Jerry Keefer wrote:...I want to the gun to sound and feel like the slide dropped on an empty chamber, as it loads..That's more important than the make...      
This has always been of interest to me; the difference between, "Chunk!" and "Ker-chunk!"  For me, I've been using two Metalform magazines for many years with good results.  I haven't really tried others, because, "These ain't broke!"  Last year, NRA gave away a new magazine with the entry packets, but I haven't evaluated it yet...
I got one of the Metalform magazines with my entry to the National Matches last year, then two of my friends gave me their National Match entry mags, so now I have three - they all work well in my wadgun, nary an issue.
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Schaumannk on 2/21/2015, 11:43 pm

rvlvrlvr wrote:
Ed Hall wrote:
Jerry Keefer wrote:...I want to the gun to sound and feel like the slide dropped on an empty chamber, as it loads..That's more important than the make...      
This has always been of interest to me; the difference between, "Chunk!" and "Ker-chunk!"  For me, I've been using two Metalform magazines for many years with good results.  I haven't really tried others, because, "These ain't broke!"  Last year, NRA gave away a new magazine with the entry packets, but I haven't evaluated it yet...
I got one of the Metalform magazines with my entry to the National Matches last year, then two of my friends gave me their National Match entry mags, so now I have three - they all work well in my wadgun, nary an issue.
The magazine that I got at the National matches in my packet, was a precise clone of the Mec-Gars which I have been using for years.  Take a look at the feed ramp.  If they are what Metalform is making now, that is great, but the finish on the Mec-Gars is superior.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Froneck on 2/26/2015, 11:17 am

LongSlide wrote:Ah, but .001" does make a difference, no?

I've often heard of shooters putting the first round of a magazine into the backstop before shooting the rest because the first round was hand chambered.
Doing that is against the rules. If the shot goes out the barrel during the time given it's part of your score and will be treated as if you missed the target or cross fired and loaded another round.
 If a shot went out before the time to load was issued, you would probably be escorted off the range.
 
 Plus A common error I see many make and see it posted many times. Take a good shooting gun and decide to lighten the load. Most say to change the recoil spring and make it lighter or worse cut the spring. Doing that does the same thing as the Mag putting a lot of pressure on the slide. If the gun has been set up with a 16 pound spring don't change it. There is a relationship between all the parts and if that relationship is altered you most certainly will have problems!

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by DavidR on 2/26/2015, 12:42 pm

I think he was talking about ransom testing where you burn the first shot.
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Froneck on 2/26/2015, 1:10 pm

Oh Well now everyone knows I can't read, I just look at the pictures. Open mouth put foot in!

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by 2700xx on 8/23/2015, 6:00 am

Have had very good results with metal form magazines, was told the made Colt's factory 1911 magazines at one time, not sure if they still do.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Axehandle on 8/23/2015, 7:13 am

Metalform here.  Just put new Shooting Star followers in a set that are 20+ years old.  The original followers seemed a bit flimsy.  KC has good pictures of the Marvel cut somewhere on the forum.  He did one on my last gun.  Really makes the gun smooth.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by 45 MIKE on 8/23/2015, 7:20 am

And also followers Metal or plastic, rounded or flat what ones are best

And feed lips parallel like Wilsons
or tapered like the JMB originals
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by rich.tullo on 8/23/2015, 2:15 pm

i think they are Metalform , the Les Baer mags are great, I also like colt with a Wilson follower add a heavy spring.
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by lablover on 8/23/2015, 4:05 pm

All these raves for Metalform.  Would anyone like to say or link to what Model Metalform?  I'm on the prowl to purchase some mags and the most of you seem to like the Metalform.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by jglenn21 on 8/23/2015, 6:36 pm

The Metalform Elite is a fine mag...


I throw Brownell's mags into the equation give they are made by Metalform .. SS and covered with some pretty slick stuff..
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Fire Escape on 8/23/2015, 9:04 pm

lablover wrote:All these raves for Metalform.  Would anyone like to say or link to what Model Metalform?  I'm on the prowl to purchase some mags and the most of you seem to like the Metalform.



The Metalform website sure doesn't help, way too many to choose from and very little to explain what the differences are!


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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by lablover on 8/23/2015, 9:07 pm

Fire Escape wrote:
lablover wrote:All these raves for Metalform.  Would anyone like to say or link to what Model Metalform?  I'm on the prowl to purchase some mags and the most of you seem to like the Metalform.



The Metalform website sure doesn't help, way too many to choose from and very little to explain what the differences are!


Bruce
Ya think.!!
Yea, way too many to choose from

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by kwixdraw on 8/23/2015, 10:38 pm

I've been having good luck with the blued Metalforms that have the standard seven round capacity, welded base plate and the round follower. Back in the 90s I was in a colt armorers class and they stated that the standard Colt magazines (at that time) were from Chip McCormick. I suspect that that has changed many times with supply and cost considerations. As another example. In Sig armorers class, the instructor said that Sigs magazines were supplied by Mec Gar. He said that the ones you got from Mec Gar were half the price of what came out of a Sig package because Sig ran shipment of magazines through their quality control process and sent any that didn't meet specs back to Mec Gar, who then put their name on them and sold them on the aftermarket.
 One thing to watch out for on 1911 magazines is the corners of the cutout on the back wall of the magazine, just below the feed lips. Many older designs and gov't issue mags had a square cut corner which was a stress riser waiting to crack. If you look hard at that corner you may find small cracks there that allow the feed lips to spread and screw up the timing of the release of the round. I don't recall seeing the square cut on any recently made magazines of high quality.
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

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