Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

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Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by 230Ball on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

What's your favorite (i.e. reliable) 1911 magazine?
I'm re-entering bullseye comp after nearly two decades and remember that the weakest link with the 1911 was the magazine.  Seems like every string (back then) had an alibi.
I still have my 1911 wad and ball guns which will be forever timeless, but a total smorgasbord of magazines laying around after all of these years.  What's the latest in technology, as well as your favorites?

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Ed Hall on Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:38 am

kwixdraw wrote:I've been having good luck with the blued Metalforms that have the standard seven round capacity, welded base plate and the round follower...
This describes mine down to the base.  My bases are removeable two piece types.  I got mine long ago (15-20 years), though, and I think from Gil Hebart.  They have run well in all my .45s, with and without scopes, both wad and ball.  Only recently have I added a third and fourth, both because they came with my packet at the Nationals.  The 2014 has run fine whenever I tried it, but the 2015 one cost me a recent match, when I tried to use it for a refire string.  It jambed the round into the chamber at such an angle and so tight, I had to pull the slide stop and use the frame ramp to clear it.  This was definitely a mistake a High Master should never make, but it helped a fellow High Master win the day.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by jglenn21 on Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:40 am

We used to take a rats tail file to those square corners

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jerry Keefer on Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:48 am

Whatever works...Smile   I test each magazine in a RR to see if an individual magazine  is effecting the group..

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by kwixdraw on Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:14 am

Jerry, How much of a variation in group size do you typically see that you can assign to the magazine? Is there a typical way that the magazine effects the group or do they just cause random flyers?

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jerry Keefer on Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:43 pm

kwixdraw wrote:Jerry, How much of a variation in group size do you typically see that you can assign to the magazine? Is there a typical way that the magazine effects the group or do they just cause random flyers?
Sometimes, it can be several inches of the group size.. I want the gun to feed smooooooth... No clunk/ker/chunk feel and sound.. If the extractor and other feed related areas are good, I work on the magazine.. If the lips are marking the cartridge, I break the sharp edges and polish. I polish the spring, follower and the magazine inside, and use a thin lube.
I like weak magazine springs.. If need be I reduce the number of coils until I get the feel I want. We only need to feed 5 rounds per string.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by kwixdraw on Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:57 pm

So help me understand this. You build a gun and use all the techniques you know. All of the best parts and precision fitting. You are thinking that this gun is easily going to shoot the x-ring out at 50 yards with your best ammo and the magazine can make it shoot 3"-4" groups? You then change magazines and find that with this one the gun shoots into 1.5"?  Pretty amazing. Interesting that so much of BE accuracy goes counter to the combat best practices. Light mag springs instead of extra power springs and so on.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by jglenn21 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:52 am

just way different levels of accuracy needed in the two sports

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by kwixdraw on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:56 pm

True.  Opposite ends of the power spectrum too.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jerry Keefer on Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:10 pm

I have always felt that far too much emphasis is placed on the super power mag springs. I personally never saw a need. I tried them of course, but caused more problems than they were supposed to solve.
One thing to remember..The slide must stop its rearward travel completely, before it can return forward..
That stop and resulting dwell period nearly always provides sufficient time for the next round to advance.
The extra upper spring pressure induces extra drag on the slide..and changes the dynamics with the feeding of each round.. The more rounds the more drag on the first /top rounds..the different dynamics of round presentation to the chamber, causes cartridge seating and positioning differences within the chamber. The bigger the chamber, the greater the changes in the group. A .22 is very sensitive to this and can be seen in the trajectory of ejected rounds on many guns.. The first case is weak and the each round there after is ejected with stronger force and distance..

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by DavidR on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:49 am

Jerry, do you have a preferred brand of mag that works well without major modification?

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:25 pm

Kermit Workman wrote:I will add another comment from an Army armorer, B.J. Snow,( now making custom knives) from 25 years ago. He encouraged using one magazine for slow fire. His reason was that the different magazines caused different feeding angles of the bullet into the feed ramp. Thus there might be a different bullet distortion from magazine to magazine that caused a shift in bullet impact. I am sure his observance was from using a Ransom Rest.
 

My question is this.  If I only have one mag I assume I have to release the pistol to load the magazine, which is an inherently two hand operation.  Is using a single magazine more of a detriment to consistency because I have to re-establish my grip over the benefit that is demonstrated from a rest?


Honest question from a novice shooter.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jon Eulette on Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:07 pm

Most High Master shooters only use 1 magazine for 50 yards. It will group consistently to same POI/POA. Obviously it takes practice getting a consistent grip....practice, practice, practice Razz)
Jon

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:31 pm

Thank you Smile  more great knowledge as always from the High Masters!

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:13 am

I've recently been battling a feeding issue with hollow point ammunition from new style magazines. Well I finally got it squared away. The magazine springs were putting way too much pressure on the feedlips. After testing the pistol with some older weak springed magazines, I found that feeding was reliable and smooth as silk. I ended up cutting 2 coils off the newer magazine spring and now the magazines are feeding perfectly. Jerry was right once again:p)
Jon

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jerry Keefer on Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:14 am

Great..!!!  Glad it worked out for you , Jon..

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by knightimac on Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:12 am

Jon or Jerry

This may be a dumb question but I have to ask.  How about using a 10 round Metalform  extended magazine so I don't have to change grip when I'm shooting well?

Idea

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Schaumannk on Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:17 am

knightimac wrote:Jon or Jerry

This may be a dumb question but I have to ask.  How about using a 10 round Metalform  extended magazine so I don't have to change grip when I'm shooting well?

Idea
I think it would be legal in slow fire.  However, in sustained fire, the rules say, you only load five rounds at a time.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Fire Escape on Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:23 am

I am not nearly as qualified to answer as Jon or Jerry. For an extended length magazine to function it generally needs a stronger spring, You would probably have to test the individual magazine in your gun to know if it was creating any of the accuracy issues mentioned above. You would also have to insure that it was considered a 'legal' modification for the event you were competing in.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:31 am

10 rounds in magazine isn't a good idea. Thr spring rate changes dramatically from shot 1 to shot 10. You will get larger groups at 50 yds. It changes slide velocity because with 10 rounds in magazine much more drag on slide disconnector rail than with 5 rounds. So variable of spring pressure is more consistent with 5 rounds loaded. Eben with the .22 magazines you will see a difference. Loading 5 rounds for entire match makes it easier to be consistent with shot plan as well. 
Jon

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Dr.Don on Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:07 am

Get a second reliable magazine.  Even without the re-gripping concern you have, using only one magazine in the sustained fire stages will cause you to feel rushed to get it reloaded.  Being rushed is not conducive to good performance.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:25 am

Use 1 magazine!!!!!!!
After 4th shot (5th round is in chamber) put on thumb safety and pull out magazine and reload next 5 shots. This alleviates flier from loading 1st round from magazine into chamber (typical fliers are 1st and and last round from magazine). This is how experienced Ransom Rest users get NICE groups as well!!!!!
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by james r chapman on Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:37 am

Question, can a loaded gun with safety on be placed on the bench between strings of sf??

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:50 am

I don't know where the rule book states one way or the other. Many matches I have shot over the years have given the command "stand easy on the line" and shooters have placed their pistols on the bench while waiting for the match to resume. The next command is typically "shooters to the line, the command to load has been given" and then continue to state the commands for the string of fire. Pistols are re-grasped.
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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by DavidR on Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:10 pm

james r chapman wrote:Question, can a loaded gun with safety on be placed on the bench between strings of sf??
There is no strings of slow fire, only 10 shots in 10 minutes, but the way I read the rules, loaded guns must remain in the shooters hand or be unloaded and made safe before being placed on the bench with ECI in place.


Last edited by DavidR on Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

Post by james r chapman on Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:15 pm

I didn't state it correctly.in sf, if shooting 4 then reloading with the gun loaded, can the gun be put down while recharging the magazine.

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Re: Preferred 1911 Mag for 2700 Matches

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