Excessive Leading

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Excessive Leading

Post by Tom Jadlos on Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:41 am

Good Morning,
The barrel of my Salyer wadgun is leading excessively. I'm loading WW cases, Magnus 200 gr. H&G style bullet, 4.0 gr. Bullseye. and WW primer. I've checked the case dimensions(average .469 at the case mouth, and .470 behind the case mouth) with Salyer and they appear spot on.   I'm wondering if my barrel is over-size or possibly rough. I'm at a loss as what to do, send the barrel to Kart for their inspection or Salyer.   Does Kart have a website?   I'd like to have them inspect the barrel.   I'm open to suggestions.   Thanks, Tom

Also, What is the best and safest way to remove leading from the barrel, Lewis Lead Remover or Chore Boy wrapped around a brass brush?

Tom Jadlos

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by davekp on Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:51 am

Tom Jadlos wrote:Good Morning,
The barrel of my Salyer wadgun is leading excessively. I'm loading WW cases, Magnus 200 gr. H&G style bullet, 4.0 gr. Bullseye. and WW primer. I've checked the case dimensions(average .469 at the case mouth, and .470 behind the case mouth) with Salyer and they appear spot on.   I'm wondering if my barrel is over-size or possibly rough. I'm at a loss as what to do, send the barrel to Kart for their inspection or Salyer.   Does Kart have a website?   I'd like to have them inspect the barrel.   I'm open to suggestions.   Thanks, Tom

Also, What is the best and safest way to remove leading from the barrel, Lewis Lead Remover or Chore Boy wrapped around a brass brush?
What is the diameter of the bullets? Swaged or cast?
Can you slug the barrel?

davekp

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:30 am

If you go the chore boy route  be SURE it's the solid copper variety.
There are copper PLATED scrubbers out there & they're as useful as copper plated bullets

STEVE SAMELAK

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by Dr.Don on Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:17 am

Brownells sells bronze wool.  Just like steel wool but bronze.  Won't cut steel but is great when you need to be aggressive in cleaning.

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by dronning on Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:28 am

I believe the Magnus 200 gr. H&G style bullet is .452.

I would check loads and try alternative bullets before I sent my barrel in.

What is the OAL - the wrong OAL can cause high pressure?  4.0 Bullseye with a LSWC has proven to be a very good load for the 45 and shouldn't be an issue, but have you chrono'd your loads?  Only reason I ask is if you push LSWC too fast you will get heavy leading.  Soft batch of bullets? - it happens.

+1 on the chore boy.  For heavy fouling I soak the barrel with Kroil then I heat it up with a heat gun let it set until it cools and one swipe with chore boy and it's like new.

dronning

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by AllAces on Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:37 am

.452 lead bullets are more often used to load .45 Colt (some refer to this as "Long Colt").  Most 1911 barrels are for .451 bullets. Try some .451" 200 gr LSWC from Penn Bullets or Zero, or Zero 185 gr LSWCHP. Work up some BE loads and do some testing. Also, Clays is a good powder for bullseye and not as dirty as BE.

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by DavidR on Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:05 am

The industry normal size for 45 acp cast or swagged bullets are .452 , .451 is what most FMJ's are. I doubt its a problem with the barrel. which magnus  bullets? a cast magnus 200 is a # 802, its easy to tell from his swagged 200s it will have a double lube groove with a greeny blue lube, his swagged 200s and 185 just has a thatch pattern on the bullet, with no lube groves and uses  a light rolled on tan lube and these will lead in many barrels, if yours are the swagged ones, try a different type bullet that is cast and has the conventional lube groove ( ask Dave for a few of the Valiant 160s he shoots) and your leading should stop. If yours are the 802s then make sure your barrel is super clean with no lead or copper and try again.

DavidR
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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by Jerry944T on Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:57 pm

Chore boy is MUCH faster for removing lead that a Lewis Lead Remover.

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by Axehandle on Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:20 pm

Elaborate a little on "leading excessively."   Are you saying that accuracy goes to pot or you see lead in the barrel or both.  If accuracy goes away how good does it start out shooting?   Personally been shooting Magnus cast bullets as long as they have been around (Anyone else know Ed Crumley?)  Never had a Magnus bullet lead a 45 ACP barrel.   IMHO no faster than your load should be going I'd lean toward a rough spot in the barrel.  I'd call Terry at Magnus.  He has seen and heard it all.  He made 2650 club shooting his own bullets

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by Magnusbullets on Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:43 am

Magnus bullets here. Emailed some to Tom on this.
I shoot the 200 gr cast he has in my Baer and Springfield guns . Shot matches last few weeks with bullets from the same batch.
No leading in either gun. 4.2 tightgroup.
Also Dave emailed me that gun was built with kkm barrell. Wiiling to send him others to test with.

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by KenO on Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:27 pm

Just my opionion, but some barrels just lead. I have several .45s, and the only one that leads is a S&W 625 revolver. I see on other forums that the 625s all seem to have that problem, but I'm sure someone will say theirs doesn't. I just shoot FMJs with it.

For the autos I would  change out the barrel and I would bet that cures it. Maybe Kart would exchange the one you have, they are known to handle LSWCs just fine.

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by Al on Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:30 pm

Jerry944T wrote:Chore boy is MUCH faster for removing lead that a Lewis Lead Remover.
+1.
I used a Lewis for decades, until I tried the ALL COPPER Chore Boy strands.  No comparison, Chore Boy by a mile for both effectiveness and ease of use.

Al

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by Tom Jadlos on Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:16 am

A sincere thanks to everyone for your comments, they've been very helpful.  The barrel in my gun is a Kart, not KKM.  E-mail exchanges with Dave Salyer, as well as your input lead me to believe that I may have identified the problem.  The first batch of bullets through the gun were Zero swaged.  There is a possibility that I didn't get the barrel "perfectly clean" and thus the leading.  I've got a Lewis Lead Remover and J-B bore paste coming and will let you know how things proceed.  Thanks for helping a 1st year Bullseye shooter.  Love the sport. 
PS I'm a bit leery about using the Chore Boy method for fear of damaging the barrel.  Is it a safe method for removing lead? 
Tom

Tom Jadlos

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by dronning on Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:12 am

Tom Jadlos wrote:....... 
PS I'm a bit leery about using the Chore Boy method for fear of damaging the barrel.  Is it a safe method for removing lead? 
Tom
Yes Chore Boy is very safe and works, it's pure copper and won't hurt your bore, just wrap it around a brass brush, lube it with some Hoppe's or whatever and run it through your barrel until clean.  Bullets are copper plated, copper jacketed ... well you get the idea.  Don't use anything but pure copper, there are copper coated versions of CB, and they will damage your bore. 

A friends gun was so badly leaded that after several passes with CB I had barely made a dent so I resorted to putting it in my ultrasonic cleaner filled with Kroil and turned on the heater and let it vibrate/stew for about 30 minutes.  Two passes with the CB wrapped brass brush and it was like new.

I too am new to Bullseye and love it.

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Re: Excessive Leading

Post by LongSlide on Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:47 pm

The only two issues with using the ChoreBoy are:
(1) The all copper version is getting had to find.
(2) If you cut the strands (to wrap them around the brush) little bits get on the floor and the wife will bring it to your attention.

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Re: Excessive Leading

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