Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by TonyRumore on 11/5/2013, 6:12 pm

About 1988 (age 22) I shot my first bullseye match at a local club event in Waxahachie, Texas.  I used an 8.5" .357 Auto Mag.  I believe the Class was simply "centerfire autoloader".  No one cared what I was shooting until the scores were tallied up and then all hell broke loose.  Because I won.  The old man that won every month really got PO'd about it and claimd that bottle necked cases were not allowed.  The whole group was still arguing about it when I left in disgust.  I have never shot a Bullseye match since.

Anyone recall the rule back in 1988?

Tony Rumore

P.S. There is quite a difference in sight radius compared to a 1911 type pistol.



TonyRumore

Posts : 4
Join date : 2013-11-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by james r chapman on 11/5/2013, 7:37 pm

Well, I don't read, or remember, anything disallowing a bottleneck case for competition. Could this have been a club rule for indoor ranges?

Many do not allow bottleneck cartridges, unless, of course, the writer of the rules shoots a .357 Sig, or a .30 Mauser. Then they will be permitted but my trusty .38/40 isn't...

although, I did find this...

"Open sights may be adjustable but not over 10 inches apart measured from the apex of the rear sight to the apex of the front sight."
avatar
james r chapman

Posts : 1869
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 68
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by TonyRumore on 11/5/2013, 7:45 pm

It was an outdoor range.  The sights are 12" apart on the Auto Mag, but no one mentioned that at the time.  Just the "bottleneck" issue.

Tony

TonyRumore

Posts : 4
Join date : 2013-11-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by Larry Lang on 11/5/2013, 8:21 pm

If you shot this one handed...congratulations, you're ready for a quality ball gun and a run on "Distinguished".
avatar
Larry Lang

Posts : 198
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 77
Location : Frederickson, WA

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by TonyRumore on 11/5/2013, 8:29 pm

Yes, it was one-handed.  I used to shoot pretty good in my early 20's even with the big bore magnum autos.

Here's a couple targets at 50 feet, hand held (2 hands), unsupported back in 1988.  First is 7 rounds of 44AMP, 7 rounds of 41AMP, and 7 rounds of 357AMP all on the same Auto Mag frame.  Second is five rounds of 41AMP.......I got a bit excited after the first four went into one little hole and then tossed the fifth one out.

Tony

  


TonyRumore

Posts : 4
Join date : 2013-11-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by s1120 on 11/6/2013, 5:00 am

I know my Dad shot that oddball 38/45 for a wile in BE. does that count as bottle neck?

s1120

Posts : 336
Join date : 2012-09-03
Age : 51
Location : Columbia county NY

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by BE Mike on 11/6/2013, 7:18 am

Tony, I just have to ask, if you are such a great shot, why do you list yourself as just a "marksman"?
avatar
BE Mike

Posts : 1311
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Indiana

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by TonyRumore on 11/6/2013, 9:02 am

That was 25 years ago.

Tony

TonyRumore

Posts : 4
Join date : 2013-11-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by DavidR on 11/6/2013, 9:47 am

It is not legal for use in the sport of bullseye; Not because of the ammo by the NRA, although a match director could disallow or allow certain calibers in his program. But for its barrel. If the guns barrel was 10'' or less you could use it for centerfire portion of a 2700, but being its 12'' it is illegal for use in any part of conventional (bullseye) pistol matches.
From the 2014 rule book: 11
3.2 Any Center Fire Pistol or Revolver -
Center-fire pistols
(single shot or semi-automatic)) or revolvers of .32 caliber or larger
(including 7.65 mm and .45 caliber pistols and revolvers); barrel
length, including cylinder, not more than 10 inches; trigger pull
not less than 2 1/2 pounds, except.45 caliber semiautomatic pistols
not less than 3 1/2 pounds. Any Sights, including telescopic, are
permitted with the exception of those sights that project an image
on the target. Open sights may be adjustable but not over 10 inches
apart measured from the apex of the rear sight to the apex of the
front sight. Any sighting device programmed to activate the firing

mechanism is prohibited. All standard safety features of the gun
must operate properly. Programs may specify particular calibers
of types of center-fire guns that will be permitted or not permitted
in stated event.
3.3 Any .45 Caliber Semi-automatic Pistol or Revolver -
Any
.45 caliber semi-automatic pistol or revolver; barrel length, includ
-
ing cylinders, not more than 10 inches, trig
3.3 Any .45 Caliber Semi-automatic Pistol or Revolver -
Any
.45 caliber semi-automatic pistol or revolver; barrel length, includ
-
ing cylinders, not more than 10 inches, trigger pull for revolvers
not less than 2 1/2 pounds, .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol trig
-
ger pull not less than 3 1/2 pounds. Any sights, including telescop
-
ic, are permitted with the exception of those sights that project an
image on the target. Open sights may be adjustable but not over 10
inches apart measured from the apex of the rear sight to the apex
of the front sight. Any sighting device programmed to activate the
firing mechanism is prohibited. All standard safety features of
guns must operate properly.
3.4 .22 caliber Pistol or Revolver -
Any pistol (single shot or
semi-automatic) or revolver using a .22 caliber rim-fire cartridge
having an overall length of not more than 1.1 inches and with lead
or alloy bullet not greater than .23 inches in diameter and weigh
-
ing not more than 40 grains; barrel length, including cylinder,
not more than 10 inches. Trigger pull not less than 2 pounds. Any
sights, including telescopic, are permitted with the exception of
those sights that project an image on the target. Open sights may
be adjustable but not over 10 inches apart measured from the apex
of the rear sight to the apex of the front sight. Any sighting device
programmed to activate the firing mechanism is prohibited. All
standard safety features of the gun must operate properly.
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2963
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by Powderman on 11/7/2013, 2:18 pm

David is spot on.  Now, if you could have a barrel that wasn't quite as long, you would be in business.
avatar
Powderman

Posts : 54
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Washington State--the WET side!

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by Colt711 on 11/7/2013, 6:51 pm

BE Mike wrote:Tony, I just have to ask, if you are such a great shot, why do you list yourself as just a "marksman"?
Tony,
You mention "center fire autoloader" as the match. That doesn't sound like BE. BE matches are .22 & CF, 90 shots each for an 1800, or the most common, 2700's, .22, CF, & .45, 90 shots each. 360 shots, needing 2 matches, are required for the NRA to issue a classification card such as marksman.

If your memory is like mine, that amount of time can play tricks, possibly you shot a couple of matches or you attended another discipline held in conjunction w/ a BE match?

At any rate you should develop your ability and shoot competitively!
Best of Luck,
Ron

Colt711

Posts : 407
Join date : 2012-06-07
Age : 75
Location : Hudson, Florida

Back to top Go down

The 38/45 in Competition

Post by Colt711 on 11/7/2013, 6:59 pm

s1120 wrote:I know my Dad shot that oddball 38/45 for a wile in BE. does that count as bottle neck?
A good friend & fellow BE shooter built a 38/45 but sold it soon after. I don't know why. He said the cartridge was developed for the CF match. The purpose was to get around the feeding problems of the .38 case in autoloaders. From that I assume it was in the earlier yrs of building the .38 special conversions.

Do any of you whose experience reaches back into the 50's have information regarding this cartridge?

Sign me Curious,
Ron

Colt711

Posts : 407
Join date : 2012-06-07
Age : 75
Location : Hudson, Florida

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by james r chapman on 11/7/2013, 7:04 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38/.45_Clerke

yes, it was designed in '63
avatar
james r chapman

Posts : 1869
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 68
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by s1120 on 11/8/2013, 8:06 am

Colt711 wrote:
s1120 wrote:I know my Dad shot that oddball 38/45 for a wile in BE. does that count as bottle neck?
A good friend & fellow BE shooter built a 38/45 but sold it soon after. I don't know why. He said the cartridge was developed for the CF match. The purpose was to get around the feeding problems of the .38 case in autoloaders. From that I assume it was in the earlier yrs of building the .38 special conversions.

Do any of you whose experience reaches back into the 50's have information regarding this cartridge?

Sign me Curious,
Ron
Ya, Im not sure how long he shot it for. Had a lot of ammo left over, and the dies, and barrel laying around though. Its a strange looking round for sure!

s1120

Posts : 336
Join date : 2012-09-03
Age : 51
Location : Columbia county NY

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by GrumpyOldMan on 11/8/2013, 11:39 pm

Please don't let that jerk keep on "winning" by keeping you away after 25 years.

Go ahead and bring that AutoMag and shoot some not for record or classification scores, or bring/beg/borrow something that fits the rules.

Betcha that pistol has a LOT of other fond memories for you.

One of my earliest memories of a gun shop or the guns section of a hasmosteverything store was when I was maybe 4 years old. Was with my Dad, and while he was talking with the dude behind the counter, I had a nice close-up view of an AutoMag. Thought the stainless finish was cool, though I didn't have the vocabulary to call it that yet. Saw that day that the cool stuff is often behind glass.

GrumpyOldMan

Posts : 454
Join date : 2013-03-08
Location : High Desert Southwest Red Rock Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Any rule against using a bottle neck case?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum