Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

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Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

Post by xringshooter on Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

My brother-in-law recently bought a Ruger Mark III "Hunter" for bullseye shooting, and has mounted a red dot scope on it.  He has been shooting CCI Standard Velocity (SV) .22LR ammo, and is experiencing a stovepipe malfunction every 20 rounds or so.  Has anyone else had similar problems shooting SV ammo in these pistols?  I'm thinking the SV ammo doesn't have sufficient "kick" to work the bolt/slide reliably, and he may have better luck with High Velocity ammo.  It's my belief that all Ruger Mark I, II, and III pistols are basically the same, and most people buy them for plinking, using inexpensive, high velocity ammo like that found at Walmart, etc., and those pistols are designed and built for that type ammo. Any thoughts/ideas?

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Re: Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

Post by Axehandle on Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:56 am

I still remember the All National Guard Gunsmith, Joe Chambers, explaining to me that the gilt edge of accuracy was gone in just a few thousand rounds with jacketed bullets.   He added that cast/lead bullets allowed that gilt edge to stay many times that number over.  Believe it or not.  It is simple tested fact by the gunsmith and gun building shop that was as good as there has ever been..
 
Now in cleaning, we are not talking about 90 bullets moving down the bore at 700 FPS in 10 round batches.  We are talking single digit inches per second at best a few times every 90 rounds.   I don't believe that it is the copper brush or nylon bore snake that has any real potential to damage the bore.  The damage that is possible is from improper use and foreign matter contamination.  I remember a record holding bench rest shooter chewing me out about laying an aluminum cleaning rod on a concrete bench.  Of course if your barrel is not capable of exceptional accuracy to start out the point it moot.  Unless there is something wrong with the barrel that cleaning can change, you can't make something not shoot well by cleaning that wasn't shooting well in the first place.Smile

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Re: Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:55 am

There is a video on you tube that shows a person using a nylon rope to cut through a solid steel bar...I just wish I could find it.
The gunsmith who observed the boresnake damaged rifles said the wear is very unique and the shooters all demonstrated their use the same way so that the boresnake would be pulled against the crown of the barrel at 2 o'clock.  The muzzles were all eroded in the direction the boresnakes were pulled.

Now, don't get me wrong--on the rare occasion that I do scrub the bore of my firearms, I do use a boresnake.  It's just VERY rare.  It's just never that dirty because I send lead patches down the bore so frequently! Razz
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Re: Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

Post by Bullseye10X on Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:30 am

Rob, could it have been that some left over bullet jacket was dragged along with the brush? 

If the bore snake wasn't pulled out exactly straight through the muzzle, and was allowed to drag over the edge of the crown while pulling sharp pieces of metal, I could certainly buy that.  Though it seems like it would take a good long time for this to happen.

I did see a video one time where someone used dental floss to cut through steel prison bars.  In fact, dental floss is banned in most prisons, apparently because this is possible.  Happened down in TX about 10-15 years ago.

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Re: Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

Post by Rob Kovach on Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:35 am

Bullet jacket is dragged down the barrel every time you shoot jacketed rounds.  The gunsmith that pointed this out to me is adamant that the muzzle erosion was due to overuses of boresnake.  One of the customers even agreed with this diagnosis and the guy demonstrated how he would pull the snake at the angle where the wear was.
 
Next time at perry, go to CMP and ask the armorer what the cause of muzzle erosion is on the M1 Garands.  He will tell you some story about rifles that weren't in the field as much have much worse muzzle erosion because in the rear, everybody had so much time to clear their rifles and that constant cleaning promotes much more wear than shooting does.
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Re: Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

Post by dronning on Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:46 am

I use boresnake sparingly and I remove the brass brushes.  I don't clean my 22's after every session other than a good wipe down.

The worst thing I have ever seen is a fellow shooter dropping his boresnake on the ground and picking it up and using it!
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Re: Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

Post by Yiogo on Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:39 am

So a clean gun shoots worse than a dirty one? Is that the consensus?
So a dirty gun is safer than a clean one also? 
This is according to the top gunsmiths?
For the record, I aspire to neither of those suppositions.
I'm 65 years old and started shooting bullseye at 64 years old but spent time in the military...so what do I know except for my science background. Also,  I am no stranger to firearms.
I'm wondering what Drill Sgt Zills would have thought about all of this. God Bless him!
Well, I'm really not wondering but...
Whatever works. Just be careful.
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Re: Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

Post by Yiogo on Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:46 am

This is from the Encylopedia of Bullseye Pistol.
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/malfunction.htm
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Re: Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:28 am

Clean the PISTOL as much as you want.  Brush out the chamber with a copper brush if you want.  That has nothing to do with excessively cleaning the bore.
 
That stuff CAN be overdone.  Just don't overdo it.  When the gun has crap on it, I take it apart and clean it.  I look down the bore and see if the bore is fouled.  If it's not fouled, I clean the rest of the gun and put it back together--and I don't run ANYTHING down the bore.
 
The next time I go to the range, the first shot I shoot goes right were I pointed it.  No first shot flyers--no guesswork.

....and NO risk that the bore gets damaged from the amount or method of cleaning.
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Re: Ruger Mark III Stovepipes

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