hardball pistol

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hardball pistol

Post by aloreman on Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

What would I need to do to a springfield mil spec to make it a competitive pistol

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by Jack H on Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:19 pm

Even after Roddy and I relieved under the hammer and eased the corners under the GI tail, my meaty fleshy hand got bit once in a while.  And the tail wore a callous on my hand that would bleed after a long session.  I shot some 900 with HB.  Best was 840.

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by TexasC on Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:34 pm

Steve B wrote:Beavertails were developed for a reason...
Beavertails were invented for a reason, to assist, assure hand placement on the grip for quick draw. I am neutral on the safety, hammer and grip safety I do not see as how it gives an advantage. In my first EIC match I just thought I could shoot a handgun. I had great equipment (Les Baer hardball), that bought me exactly zero points. I had 4 visible misses and 2 non visible because I had no idea that I was pulling the trigger wrong or badly. So someone coming out with a Wilson Premier, Les Baer Monolith, SVI, STI Trojan, S&W Custom Shop 1911 or a Springfield RO that has not learned to pull the trigger is going to get a rude awakening. I have a lot of 1911 .45ACP pistols that I will send to a good smith and have the triggers set to 4lbs if and when the equipment rules change. I also have some STI Eagles that I think should never be accepted as EIC eligible. Regardless I will continue to shoot the pistols I purchased for the points chase and be happy. I really wish that the ammo was issued that would be fun, although I think my load is faithful to the spirit as it is at an average of 855fps and I shoot it for all 30 shots.
Things are going to change, that is the only thing that does not change!
Mike in Texas waiting for the next match!

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by DavidR on Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:54 pm

aloreman wrote:What would I need to do to a springfield mil spec to make it a competitive pistol
Hard to say, First it would depend on your budget, if its of no concern, then have a smith re-barrel it with a kart ,Barstow or KKM,  do a trigger job, tighten the frame/slide fit if needed, stipple front strap and add  adjustable sights. If cost is important then  you would need to do a accuracy test first to see if the gun will hold the black at 50 yards with whatever ammo you intend to shoot, if it will then id say the least you would have to do is add adjustable sights. If not it needs to be re-barreled. That would get you started then do the rest as money becomes available. If you have not bought or have the mil=spec already, id say buy the Springfield range officer instead, it has the sights, match barrel and tighter frame/slide fit already, you would only need to replace the hammer and beavertail to comply with current rules.
,

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by Jack H on Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:00 pm

aloreman wrote:What would I need to do to a springfield mil spec to make it a competitive pistol
On the original question here

Sights, bushing, lockup improvement, trigger job, lowering ejection port. minimum.

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:05 pm

Range officer also has an "extended thumb safety" that would need to be replaced with a GI type one--or cut the factory one down to the GI profile.

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by DeweyHales on Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:47 pm

The original intent of legging out was to find the best of the next group of shooters. As long as those guys are using similar ammo and equipment, you will find them in the top 10%. 

Anything more than that is outside of the original intent. I'm surprised more "old timers" don't realize that.

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by LenV on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:01 pm

I know this is an older thread but there is perfect picture of a ball gun posted by Axehandle Nov 24th that is exactly like my ball gun frame. I shot a 2700 yesterday and afterwards I was showing off the ball gun I just put together and several shooters said it would not be legal because of the small dimple (just like the Caspian) under the trigger guard. I don't want to shoot it then have it DQ'd or not even be able to shoot it.What is the opinion here? Is it legal for CMP?

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:54 pm

If you have a picture of the gun click the button that looks like a box with a floppy disk next to it.  Browse for the file, click "host it", then copy and paste the 2nd link that shows up on the screen to post the photo.
It would be helpful for us to see it so say if your frame is legal or not.

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by LenV on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:51 pm

I gave up.I tried for half hour to put it on here. PM sent

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by LenV on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:36 pm

I think I may have researched enough on this today to answer my own question.According to CMP rules it is not the notch or cut out that is illegal .It is the Gold Cup enhanced or "O" model that is not legal and the cut out is how they tell if it is that model of Gold Cup. Kind of confusing but a series 70 with the same notch would be perfectly fine.

Len

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by LenV on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:46 pm


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Re: hardball pistol

Post by LenV on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:48 pm

Ok,now I can post pictures.3 hrs per picture but I expect to speed up

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by Axehandle on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:38 am

Any of you old gray beards remember when the 9mm arrived and all the old distinguished guys said that the medal shoud be smaller if won with the 9mm?   Very Happy   Holding USAF Distinguished badge #231 myself.   Was awarded it in '84.   As a shooter coming through the AL Air NG system I was required to shoot double hardball until I was either distinguished or broke 2500.    For a military shooter coming into the system the singe justification for our existence was Service Pistol.  Made the leg matches simple since  this required the use of the same gun the EIC matches do.  All ammo for service and pistol and EIC were issued on the line.  In my years it was always WCC Match Ball. Ammo playing ground was equal since everyone was required to shoot the issued ammo.   In the days of the DCM civilian EIC matches shot the same, issued on the line, WCC Match hardball.  FWIW the services shoots a combat thing that in the 90s allowed the use of the Beretta or SIG 228.  Back in the day seems like 14 of your EIC points could be from combat.  For a long time the USAF did not recognize any combat EIC points. 
 
A good illustration of the effectiveness of that system is that I shot 2600 while holding an expert classification card the same year I got my distinguished badge.

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by LenV on Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:39 pm

Groan.You sure know how to make a guy feel old.No,I don't remember when the 9mm arrived.It was after my time.In the 70's the Army issued white box match bullets. They were mostly Federal. I still have a lot of brass with a head stamp saying   FC 71 match. feeling old.

Len

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by DeweyHales on Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:48 pm

Next year, the M9 will mark 30 years of service.  Many of our current fighting men and women weren't born when the M1911 was the service pistol. 

I love both.  It's the shooter and not the gun that makes the difference.

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by Axehandle on Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:14 am

Pulled out my old 45 ACP hardball gun yesterday along with a 100 rounds of GI hardball.   This year I've been working to get back into shooting shape and shooting 200-300 rounds of wadcutter a week.  Hand was toughening up nicely, I thought.   There is no doubt that the EIC match is a relative thing.  I.E.  a level playing field.  However, You guys that have never shot 100 rounds of full up GI hardball in an EIC legal 1911 are missing lots of fun!  Very Happy 
AND a Distinguished badge won with a 9mm should be smaller than a Distinguished badge won with a 45!    lol!

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by james r chapman on Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:48 am

I don't understand why they can't strike a deal with someone to provide the match ammo. that was one helluva level playing field!

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:27 pm

I was thinking that this issue could be a marketing success for both the CMP and an ammo company.  Here's how:

CMP seeks bidders to be "the official ammo of the National Pistol Match".  In exchange for winning that bid, the ammo manufacturer may use CMP logos and other terms like "match grade" on the package.  For using the logos and marketing slogans, the ammo must have the CMP website address on it, thus exposing CMP matches to more shooters.

To keep people from cheating and reloading the "official" brass, simply require shooters use the "official" ammo and have all of the ammo passed from the shooter that brought it to the next shooter on the firing line.

That way CMP doesn't need the funds to purchase, stockpile, or issue the "official" ammo.  The ammo manufacturer gets more sales of the same ammo by changing the packaging and calling it "Premium National Match grade" and we get to practice with the "official" ammo prior to the actual match while actually shooting on a truly level playing field again--and it doesn't cost anybody a dime.

WIN-WIN-WIN

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by DeweyHales on Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:39 pm

Rob,

That breaks down as soon as I pass my 9mm to a guy with a .45 or vice versa. 

Guys,

There is nothing wrong with the current system.  The top 10% of shooters are the top 10% no matter what gear they use. 

If we did the P100 with .22s, the same guys that win the award would still win it.

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:45 pm

Being on active duty, even without the run on supplies, reloading is a PITA with moving every 2 years.  I would really like a setup like this.


Rob Kovach wrote:I was thinking that this issue could be a marketing success for both the 

That way CMP doesn't need the funds to purchase, stockpile, or issue the "official" ammo.  The ammo manufacturer gets more sales of the same ammo by changing the packaging and calling it "Premium National Match grade" and we get to practice with the "official" ammo prior to the actual match while actually shooting on a truly level playing field again--and it doesn't cost anybody a dime.

WIN-WIN-WIN

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by DavidR on Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:27 pm

james r chapman wrote:I don't understand why they can't strike a deal with someone to provide the match ammo. that was one helluva level playing field!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ no budjet for anything that cant be bought with a EBT card  in the Obama regime  lol!

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:59 pm

Dewey Hales wrote:That breaks down as soon as I pass my 9mm to a guy with a .45 or vice versa.
 Obviously you pass the "Premium National Match" 9mm ammo to the next 9mm shooter, while us real shooters pass the .45  Wink

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by Axehandle on Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:50 pm

... And in no time these come along... Smile 



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Re: hardball pistol

Post by gitkrunk on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:07 pm

Axehandle wrote:... And in no time these come along... Smile 


 me like!! I ran into one your great USAF shooting a couple weeks ago  T.D. Smith  great guy amazing stories!!

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Re: hardball pistol

Post by DeweyHales on Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:24 am

Rob Kovach wrote:
Dewey Hales wrote:That breaks down as soon as I pass my 9mm to a guy with a .45 or vice versa.
 Obviously you pass the "Premium National Match" 9mm ammo to the next 9mm shooter, while us real shooters pass the .45  Wink
Hopefully one of the recent P100 winners will be there. Almost all of them are 9mm shooters.  Laughing

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Re: hardball pistol

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