Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

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Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ok revolver lovers,

I consistently shoot worse with my revolver than my other guns--and I always shoot DR legal loads.

My buddy lent me his machine rest to use for developing my ammo.  It's not good!

If I shoot 148gr HBWCs in my gun they group <2" with a random flier a couple inches out of the group, but when I shoot LSWC or LRNs through it, I get some pretty big spreads.  5-7"!  There doesn't seem to be any consistency from cylinder to cylinder either.  One set of 6 shot has cyl 1 with a flier.  The next string has cyl 1 in the group but cyl 5 is a flier.  And every string had a lot of vertical stringing.

I switched to factory loads (ok Blazer 158 LRNs but it was the only DR legal stuff I could find) and it was about the same.

Is this about normal?  Are my expectations just too high?

Rob Kovach
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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by gitkrunk on Sun May 11, 2014 2:40 pm

i didn't look through it all but this might be helpful Len.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/124471-38-special-factory-load-duplication.html

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?112795-Duplicating-38-Spcl-158gr-factory-load

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by LenV on Sun May 11, 2014 3:21 pm

That was a lot of help and interesting reading.I will try the bullseye first and switch to 231 if I don't like the results.

Len

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by james r chapman on Sun May 11, 2014 7:18 pm

I've been following this thread while I try and work up something for my DR revolver myself. S&W M-14.

so far I'm playing with WW231 and Trail Boss. Using a 158 gr RNFB swaged commercial bullet.

I shot a few groups from 25 y that showed promise from my Lee Pistol Rest (like Rob's), and today moved on to do some 50 yd testing.

The first trial involved no crimp as they were going to be single loaded in my #3 chamber.

any ideas on the vertical stringing on the trail boss bullet?
4.1 GR TRAILBOSS


4.0 WW 231



Last edited by james r chapman on Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun May 11, 2014 7:52 pm

Those are pretty good groups.  Try tightening the crimp just a bit so the holding force is consistent and try it again.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by james r chapman on Sun May 11, 2014 9:58 pm

thanks, that's what i'm thinking too.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Axehandle on Mon May 12, 2014 7:24 am

Just remembered a forum discussion with Lee Jurras discussing vertical stringing in his testing at Super Vel.  He wrote that he saw significant vertical stringing when he did not prepare his loads with new brass.  He was shooting longer ranges but the idea may be valid here too.  Bottom line would be that when you load your match ammo drag out a few new cases for that slow fire ammo.


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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by james r chapman on Mon May 12, 2014 8:31 am

interesting, but Lee J was pretty much working at the other end of the reloading spectrum...

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Axehandle on Mon May 12, 2014 8:59 am

Just for grins if I shoot hand loads I'll be building my match 50 yard ammo with new brass.   Smile    FWIW These days Lee is in Arizona building rifles.  He still only uses new brass to prepare his handgun ammo.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by james r chapman on Mon May 12, 2014 9:40 am

I might have some Star unfired around here...

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Jerry Keefer on Mon May 12, 2014 12:54 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:

Bill, my machine rest work that I'm doing was to try to figure out which cyl I should use for the long line--but the groups weren't consistent enough for me to come to any conclusion yet.  I think I will wait until it gets warmer.  I think I will try shooting 10 from cyl 1, 10 from cyl 2 and so on...then measure my groups.
Been watching this thread somewhat...
Some info regarding the precision with which S&W controls the chamber locations on the cylinder C/L circle.
I modified many S&W cylinders in the past, with bronze bushings, in place of the standard gas rings.. This modification decreases the clearance that is present in the factory design. When done precisely, it allows/aids in controlling end shake, and cylinder to barrel gap  to the absolute minimum. The smooth, precise rotation, from the increased bearing surface, plus tightening of groups, is very noticeable. To align the bearing axis, with the axis of the chamber line centers, and this is a MUST, or the modification will not work, the chamber line centers must be known.. In locating these centers on numerous S&W cylinders, I have never found one chamber to be off in relation to the others. There are many areas where S&W revolvers can be criticized for poor machining and lack  of precision, but chamber axis C/L is not  one, at least from my observations..
I am not saying you don't have a problem.  Although, it was commonly stated during the revolver era, that one chamber would be off, and everyone needed to determine which chamber it is.. Mostly myth.. 
Jerry

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by james r chapman on Mon May 12, 2014 2:01 pm

in my case, I have one throat that suffered damage in a past lifetime. it clearly throws one low.

also, when I got the m-14, it had .006/.020 cylinder/barrel gap. creating a huge gas leak on the starboard side. I had the barrel, umm, "replaced" and now it's .002-.003.


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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Rob Kovach on Mon May 12, 2014 4:20 pm

My gun never had any trauma, but when I did my testing, cyl 2 always was up and to the right of the group compared to the other 5 cylinders, and cyl 6 always produced the best groups for ammo testing.  I use cyl 6 for slow fire, and everything but cylinder 2 for timed and rapid.  Works great with that Remington ammo.

That gun is very fun to shoot now that i can call the shots.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Axehandle on Mon May 12, 2014 8:30 pm

Shot a few American Eagle 158s through my 14-3  today.  Looked promising.   Need to make sure I can get my hands on more before I get in to deep.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by james r chapman on Mon May 12, 2014 9:02 pm

You might also try the Magtech 158 gr rn loading. they've worked decent in my 14-2.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Kermit Workman on Fri May 23, 2014 12:48 pm

Other factory ammo that I have had good success with was the Mag-Tech 158 RN.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Virgil Kane on Fri May 30, 2014 8:38 am

Kermit Workman wrote:Other factory ammo that I have had good success with was the Mag-Tech 158 RN.


I had an old box of 158 grain RN Mag-Tech sitting around and last night gave it a try with my M-14. To say I was shocked at the good accuracy I got out of this ammo would be an understatement. I usually shoot Federal American Eagle but this Mag-Tech shot equal to or better than the AE. Not bad for cheap ammo but I'm not sure they make this ammo anymore. It would be a shame if they don't!


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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Ed Hall on Fri May 30, 2014 4:25 pm

I've had good luck with the Remington UMC referenced throughout the thread, but I used NSK's reloaded DR ammo to complete my Distinguished trek.  I'm not affiliated with NSK, other than as a customer and friend, and never rest tested the ammo, but I shot a lot of good scores with it and the price always seemed good.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Ghillieman on Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:53 am

158 RN RCBS mold with 3.5 WST and also 4.0 Unique have proved very accurate at 50 yards. The WST load runs 750 fps in a 6 inch revolver and gets about 80 fps velocity spread, but is still accurate.

I went with 4.0 Unique in hopes to reduce the extreme spread on velocity, I have not chronoed this one but it shoots great also.

All SWC's have shown to be a black hole of accuracy at 50 yards, no matter what velocity I push them at.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by LenV on Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:12 pm

Rob,
  I had a problem similar to your only having one cylinder that fired a decent group at 50 yds in a model 27. I think I tried most of the suggestions on this post but "no joy". I found a nice load using BE and 158gr L-RN that it is easy to get clean scores on the short line. I didn't want to settle for a single shot SF pistol since I often shoot 2 or more shots when I settle down on the long line. I finally gave up and took it to a gunsmith. The front of the cylinder was out of square and had to be lathed. Now I have a uniform gap and much much better group.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by farmboy on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:03 am

Ghillieman wrote:
All SWC's have shown to be a black hole of accuracy at 50 yards, no matter what velocity I push them at.

The Zero 158 LSWC over 3.3WST in a Starline case with firm roll crimp at 50yd is less than 2" for me in a RR.  Mixed brass opens the group up and gives me the odd flyers.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by LenV on Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:13 pm

I found a re-load that shoots as well or better in my DR pistol as my store bought ammo. I used it for the long line this weekend and used the store bought (UMC) for the short line. I have found that if I try to load the bullet too slow then the recoil dynamics were throwing my groups all over the place. Putting the pistol in a rest and shooting it by hand were not telling the same story. I have settled on 5.2gr of Power Pistol behind a Magtech 158 gr RN with a heavy roll crimp and a COL of 1.536.

Len

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Rob Kovach on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:41 pm

Thanks for that, Len!

I might brew up some of those an see how they work for me.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Magnusbullets on Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:24 pm

Zero new 158 RN or swc . got a win in Georgia state match last week with them.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by LenV on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:32 am

I also won State championships last weekend with my new load. Smile Oregon probably had less shooters then Georgia but it still felt good to get a win.

Len

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

Post by Magnusbullets on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:33 am

Great Len. We had 10 non dist.

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Re: Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck?

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