Safe way to store primers?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Safe way to store primers?

Post by igolfat8 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:57 pm

Is it safe to store SPP in a glass jar? I have a few thousand I want to store and it would take up far less space in my safe if I took them out of the individual containers and put them in a glass jar. I don't see why I couldn't do that since its not under any vibration or exposed to air.

igolfat8

Posts : 132
Join date : 2013-04-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by DeweyHales on Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:40 pm

Federals?

DeweyHales

Posts : 578
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by dronning on Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:44 pm

DeweyHales wrote:Federals?

Hey what's in here?, shake shake BOOM!.

I don't like the idea of a glass jar. I wouldn't store them in anything but original container but if you are storing for long term - vacuum pack them, put that Foodsaver to good use! >>>Just to clarify vacuum pack them in the original container NOT loose.<<<

Having a bunch of loose primers in a tightly packed package is asking for trouble.


Last edited by dronning on Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

dronning

Posts : 1101
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 63
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:49 pm

Don't ever store primers where they can touch each other.  If one goes off they all go off!
Just leave them in their factory package.

Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2552
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 43
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by spursnguns on Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:12 pm

You must have a lot of stuff.  How much space can they take up?   Smile 

Jim

spursnguns

Posts : 188
Join date : 2013-01-04
Age : 58
Location : Gilroy, California

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Colt711 on Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:54 am

American Rifleman answered a written question as to how to dispose of primers stored in glass jars as you propose. Their advice involved a lot of soaking and EXTREME CARE in handling. Don't remember the details but this is DEFINITE AN EXTREME HAZORD!!
Ron

Colt711

Posts : 402
Join date : 2012-06-07
Age : 74
Location : Hudson, Florida

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by AHI on Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:56 pm

NO.

AHI

Posts : 12
Join date : 2012-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by randmplumbingllc on Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:35 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:Don't ever store primers where they can touch each other.  If one goes off they all go off!
Just leave them in their factory package.

+ 10,000

You will only learn that lesson once.

randmplumbingllc

Posts : 3
Join date : 2014-01-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Chris.P.Chicken on Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:43 pm

I think the most i ever had at one time was 10 or 12 thousand when cabelas was selling the cci sr for $20/thou. I just moved some stuff. around in the safe to make room. As mentioned above by others, i wouldnt store them in anything but the factory boxes.

Chris.P.Chicken

Posts : 8
Join date : 2014-01-16
Location : Charleston, SC

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by igolfat8 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:25 pm

Got it, another one of life's lessons learned the hard way which are not easily forgotten. Thanks for the help. I was given some good advice by an OEM on how to safely neutralize my dangerous situation.

igolfat8

Posts : 132
Join date : 2013-04-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Rob Kovach on Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:29 pm

what was the advice and who was the OEM?

Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2552
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 43
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by igolfat8 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:29 am

Rob Kovach wrote:what was the advice and who was the OEM?
Lets just say it was one of the "Big three" OEMs here in the states. I am to wear proper PPE, gloves, flame retardant apparel and face shield. Leave the jar where it is and do not move it. Carefully remove the lid and carefully pour water over the primers until they are covered at least with 1" of water. Replace the lid. Leave the jar in place and undisturbed for 24 hours. The water will likely turn green which is from the dye in the primer paste. This green color is a visual indicator that water has neutralized the explosive material and rendered the contents safe to move. The jar is now safe to handle but its now classified as hazardous waste and must be disposed of properly.

igolfat8

Posts : 132
Join date : 2013-04-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by randmplumbingllc on Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:56 pm

I am sorry.

Wow, that sure is a shame, but leasons learned the hard way tend to be "learned" better.

I know how hard it is, to just get ANY primers.  I hope you have a supply, so this won't put too much of a damper on your shooting.

randmplumbingllc

Posts : 3
Join date : 2014-01-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by AlexAlphabet on Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:15 pm

The tech reason is glass is an insulator. If a primer gets a charge, it may not match the charge of a primer at the bottom, eventually the charge will creep to meet his opposite, and then spark.... then boom.  I have not tested them, but i bet the plastic the primers come in is conductive. so the charge is the same across all primers. 
This is also why we don't have glass gas cans for our yard equipment.

AlexAlphabet

Posts : 22
Join date : 2013-08-23
Location : Wisconsin

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Ed Hall on Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:55 pm

igolfat8 wrote:
Rob Kovach wrote:what was the advice and who was the OEM?
Lets just say it was one of the "Big three" OEMs here in the states. I am to wear proper PPE, gloves, flame retardant apparel and face shield. Leave the jar where it is and do not move it. Carefully remove the lid and carefully pour water over the primers until they are covered at least with 1" of water. Replace the lid. Leave the jar in place and undisturbed for 24 hours. The water will likely turn green which is from the dye in the primer paste. This green color is a visual indicator that water has neutralized the explosive material and rendered the contents safe to move. The jar is now safe to handle but its now classified as hazardous waste and must be disposed of properly.
However, in a different thread:
igolfat8 wrote:I was recently told by a safety manager of a large ammunition OEM that static discharge initiating primers is a myth. They have used cattle prods to test this. The static will discharge from the case to the anvil without initiation. Impact, friction and heat are far more likely to initiate a primer with static being the least likely.
Or, is the hazard due to the primers crushing each other?

Ed Hall

Posts : 362
Join date : 2012-09-11
Location : Adirondack Mountains

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Brian Mason on Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:10 pm

AlexAlphabet wrote:The tech reason is glass is an insulator. If a primer gets a charge, it may not match the charge of a primer at the bottom, eventually the charge will creep to meet his opposite, and then spark.... then boom.  I have not tested them, but i bet the plastic the primers come in is conductive. so the charge is the same across all primers. 
This is also why we don't have glass gas cans for our yard equipment.

The primary explosive powder in small arms primers is sensitive to detonation. If the primers are allowed to jingle around in a jar, it's also quite possible that the priming material can come loose and collect at the bottom.

Brian Mason

Posts : 23
Join date : 2011-06-12
Location : Maryland

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Colt711 on Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:18 pm

Ed,
It seems unlikely the primers would be heavy enough to crush those at or near the bottom to me. Some years ago I read an article on the hazards of the primer stack "lighting off" in the loader. It was posited primer dust in the tube is a likely culprit and regular cleaning was advised.  A good friend and I adopted this routine and a considerable amount of "color" on the patch, especially upon the initial cleaning, was observed. A used bronze .22 bore brush is a good tool for the purpose.

The above from Brian, posted as I wrote this note, would appear to lend credence to the danger mentioned in the article (I) quoted.

Thanks Brian,

Ron Habegger


Last edited by Colt711 on Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add note referring to additional post)

Colt711

Posts : 402
Join date : 2012-06-07
Age : 74
Location : Hudson, Florida

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Brian Mason on Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:19 pm

igolfat8 wrote:
Rob Kovach wrote:what was the advice and who was the OEM?
Lets just say it was one of the "Big three" OEMs here in the states. I am to wear proper PPE, gloves, flame retardant apparel and face shield. Leave the jar where it is and do not move it. Carefully remove the lid and carefully pour water over the primers until they are covered at least with 1" of water. Replace the lid. Leave the jar in place and undisturbed for 24 hours. The water will likely turn green which is from the dye in the primer paste. This green color is a visual indicator that water has neutralized the explosive material and rendered the contents safe to move. The jar is now safe to handle but its now classified as hazardous waste and must be disposed of properly.

Another warning: adding water to the primers will not permanently neutralize them, because no chemical reaction occurs. Water simply dissolves the lead styphnate and barium nitrate crystals and renders them temporarily non-detonable. If the explosive is allowed to recrystallize it will again become shock sensitive, ESD sensitive, etc. So if, for instance, the jar with the aqueous solution fell on its side and the primary were to get into the threads of the lid, that could be a big problem.

Brian Mason

Posts : 23
Join date : 2011-06-12
Location : Maryland

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Colt711 on Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:42 pm

Brian Mason wrote:

Another warning: adding water to the primers will not permanently neutralize them, because no chemical reaction occurs. Water simply dissolves the lead styphnate and barium nitrate crystals and renders them temporarily non-detonable. If the explosive is allowed to recrystallize it will again become shock sensitive, ESD sensitive, etc. So if, for instance, the jar with the aqueous solution fell on its side and the primary were to get into the threads of the lid, that could be a big problem.

The Rifleman article, quoted in my post from a couple of days ago, involved more than water, or something completely different, likely a solvent. DO NOT take this as other than a precaution that exploring  further for advice could be useful.

I was impressed by the tone of the Rifleman article. The wait advised was several days after the add.  This would be unlikely for water as Brian notes H20 could evaporate during a wait.
GOOD LUCK!

Ron Habegger

Colt711

Posts : 402
Join date : 2012-06-07
Age : 74
Location : Hudson, Florida

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Ed Hall on Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:25 pm

I suppose I should have put [sarcasm] tags around my post...

And, yes, the primer compound, rather than the cup/anvil, is quite sensitive to "crushing," [sarcasm] except in Remington Target .22 cases.[/sarcasm]

Ed Hall

Posts : 362
Join date : 2012-09-11
Location : Adirondack Mountains

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe way to store primers?

Post by Sponsored content Today at 8:26 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum