Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

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Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by djtjr on 1/21/2014, 12:13 pm

Guys i am totally new to Bullseye and have tried to use the search function but couldn't find it.  What is the ammo requirement or restriction used in CMP competition for EIC/Leg points.  Do you have to use 230FMJ or can you use something else in actual competitions?  Can i use HPs?  What would you recommend?  I just want to make sure i am starting in the right place.  I do a lot of rifle competition and loading so i am more versed there than i am here.  Also if i rather buy ammo for comps than reload for a handgun is there a place you would recommend for good ammo and pricing?  I am shooting a Clark custom Hardball 45 (with irons obviously).  I will start to load eventually if i get into it enough but i have always been a precision rifle guy so i hope i can make the switch.
Thanks for helping a noob.
best,
Don

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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by DavidR on 1/21/2014, 1:11 pm

230 full metal jacket only, no HP's, no copper plated or copper washed. Any 45 acp case and any primer and any powder can be used. In testing some friends found Magtech 230 fmj ammo to be both accurate and afordable.
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by DeweyHales on 1/21/2014, 2:56 pm

Don,

Welcome.  There are numerous hardball recipes listed in the Ammunition area of the forum.  If you add your location, I'll bet there's someone in your general area that can help get you off on the right foot.
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by Dr.Don on 1/21/2014, 3:19 pm

FYI, in the "old days" when these matches and the whole EIC program was run by the DCM, you had to use ammo that was issued on the line by the match sponsor.  It introduced some uncertainty for sure in terms of its accuracy in your particular gun and even in terms of zero.  It was usually good quality match grade ammo, but one thing was for sure...it was true HARDBALL.  There were no softball reloads masquerading as hardball.  To be honest, I'm glad I won my Distinguished in those days.
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by DeweyHales on 1/21/2014, 3:39 pm

This concept of "HARDBALL" is ridiculous.  The rules for current matches are the same for every shooter.  The shooters that did well in the past would do well today, and the shooters that do well today would have done well in the past.  The people that do the best are the ones that expend the most effort.  That's what draws us to the pursuit of the badge.   

To imply differently is to say that the Service or Civilian shooter earning his or her  badge today is less of a shooter because today's rules are different.  

It would be wonderful if the days of issued ammo would return.  I would love to be able to shoot a match for a dollar with issued ammo.  Instead, I have to pay more, travel further for an equal size match and have people belittle my accoplishment when I do well. 

Anyone that doesn't like the rule should work to either get it changed or coach a less experienced shooter to turn them into the shooter you wish them to be.

I wonder how many people wearing the badge today could go out and still shoot the scores that it takes to leg today. 

It amazes me that we have to have this discussion in the first thread of a new forum member.  Don, if you are still interested after reading all this, please get yourself to a leg match.  They are fun, and the people shooting them today are great even if we will never be what the legends once were.
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by djtjr on 1/21/2014, 4:13 pm

Thanks guys, much appreciated.  i am in Westchester NY. as an fyi
Best,
Don

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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by Rob Kovach on 1/21/2014, 8:26 pm

Don,

An important point to note is you can only shoot in 3 EIC matches plus the EIC match at Camp Perry each year for a total of 120 rounds of 230gr FMJ.  For every other match you compete in, you can use any bullet--JHPs LSWCs LRN, whatever you want.
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by BE Mike on 1/22/2014, 7:55 am

Dr.Don wrote:FYI, in the "old days" when these matches and the whole EIC program was run by the DCM, you had to use ammo that was issued on the line by the match sponsor.  It introduced some uncertainty for sure in terms of its accuracy in your particular gun and even in terms of zero.  It was usually good quality match grade ammo, but one thing was for sure...it was true HARDBALL.  There were no softball reloads masquerading as hardball.  To be honest, I'm glad I won my Distinguished in those days.
Actually, I got my badge using factory hardball in a 1911. Later on, for the fun of it, I shot an accurized Beretta in leg matches. The Beretta was much more accurate than the old 1911, but I shot comparable scores. I really don't think the rules are causing the CMP to give away medals at a greater rate and certainly the top shooters of today are quite good. Here is a quote from the CMP website: The Army ‘s James Henderson won the first of his three NTIs in 2002 followed by 
back to back victories in 2009, the year he captured the national championship and set 
the current NTI record of 297-13X, and 2010.
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by sixftunda on 1/22/2014, 1:40 pm

If the shooters who already have there badge want to show new shooters how important EIC matches are, then maybe they should stay and shoot a match.  It has never failed in my shooting experienced that a line of 50 shooters quickly dwindles to 8 when the 2700 is over and the EIC match is beginning.  To me that sends the wrong message.
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 1/22/2014, 2:28 pm

Not to appear less cognizant than usual...but do competitors who've already earned their badge count for the ratio of shooters who will get points at that match?
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by BE Mike on 1/22/2014, 2:32 pm

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:Not to appear less cognizant than usual...but do copetitors who've already earned their badge count for the ratio of shooters who will get points at that match?
No they do not count. Only non-distinguished shooters count for the amount of points (if any) awarded to the high non-distinguished shooter(s) in a match. Distinguished shooters can only compete for gold, silver and bronze medals.
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by Ed Hall on 1/22/2014, 2:59 pm

I have read through this whole thread and find something lacking.  The first thing that should have been provided to the OP is a brief description of the ammo requirement accompanied by a link to the current rules so they can read them themselves instead of just taking our word for it.  The rule book is free online and any new shooter should get a copy and read through them.

Hardball is a nickname.  Service Pistol is the official name.  Compete within the current rules and don't worry about whether we older shooters walked uphill barefoot two miles in the snow to get our badges.  If you're in the top ten per cent of the current non-Distinguished crowd and you've played by the rules, you deserve your points just as much as we deserved ours.

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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by Colt711 on 1/25/2014, 11:24 pm

Ed Hall wrote:
we older shooters walked uphill barefoot two miles in the snow to get our badges.  

Ed,

Where did you find matches that offered such mild weather? Back in the day (as they say now?!) we fought extreme conditions!!

And another thing: have you noticed this younger generation..............................

Ron Habegger

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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by james r chapman on 1/26/2014, 8:10 am

and I heard some of the old farts found the badges in CrackerJack boxes!!
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by sixftunda on 1/26/2014, 8:20 am

The targets were also smaller, further away, and the timers were faster.

 lol!
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by Rob Kovach on 1/26/2014, 8:57 am

In an effort to bring back the "old days", my friends and I shot in a ball match at Aurora Sportsman Club early last spring.  20mph winds, spits of rain, hail stones for a bit, sleet...

I shot an 18 slow fire.  Those were the only 2 holes on my target for the long line that match!!

Even with the horrible scores and poor conditions, it was SOOOO fun, and I would do it again in a heartbeat!  I love ball matches!
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by Colt711 on 1/26/2014, 6:28 pm

james r chapman wrote:and I heard some of the old farts found the badges in CrackerJack boxes!!

and ............nourishing!  bounce  


Ron

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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by Colt711 on 1/26/2014, 6:32 pm

sixftunda wrote:The targets were also smaller, further away, and the timers were faster.

 lol!

Just the facts!!

Ron 

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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by DeweyHales on 1/26/2014, 8:35 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:In an effort to bring back the "old days", my friends and I shot in a ball match at Aurora Sportsman Club early last spring.  20mph winds, spits of rain, hail stones for a bit, sleet...

I shot an 18 slow fire.  Those were the only 2 holes on my target for the long line that match!!

Even with the horrible scores and poor conditions, it was SOOOO fun, and I would do it again in a heartbeat!  I love ball matches!
Fantastic story, Rob. Very inspiring. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome, Persevere.
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Re: Ammo for CMP/Distinguished Competetion 45cal

Post by djtjr on 1/30/2014, 1:27 pm

thanks guys much appreciated

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