New match director

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

New match director

Post by TexasShooter on 1/27/2014, 7:46 am

I'm new to Bullseye and new as a match director (no one else around here was running a match, so I just started my own). As has been mentioned elsewhere, info about Bullseye on the internet is more limited than it could be. If you think that's hard, try googling "how to run a Bullseye match". A new match director as clueless as I am is pretty much out of luck.

I drove a couple of hundred miles to a match just to get idea of what it's supposed to look like and we had our first match this month, so I've seen exactly 2 matches. All things considered our first match turned out pretty well - we shot an 1800, about a dozen shooters showed up and had a lot of fun. We learned a lot (both about shooting and about running a match).

Current match directors - what mistakes have you made, what would you do different, what's the smartest thing you've done?
Shooters - what do you see at matches that you think could be done better, what do you see that you think is great, what would you like to see?

The questions above aren't meant to limit the topic, they're meant to get you thinking. I'm just looking for a little brain-storming about how to run a good local match while promoting the sport...

Thanks in advance!

TexasShooter

Posts : 92
Join date : 2014-01-26
Age : 59
Location : Midland, TX

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by BE Mike on 1/27/2014, 7:58 am

Just follow the rules and remember that no matter how hard you try, you can't make everybody happy.
avatar
BE Mike

Posts : 1499
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Indiana

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 1/27/2014, 8:01 am

Don't be bashfull about delegating, and remind crybabies of the first rule of camping...the first complainer is the next cook Smile
avatar
STEVE SAMELAK

Posts : 494
Join date : 2011-06-10

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by john bickar on 1/27/2014, 10:21 pm

Good for you, thank you for doing this.

My suggestions are as such:

  • Start on time
  • Get as much paperwork as possible done beforehand
  • Establish a rhythm in your commands. Doesn't matter if fast, slow, or whatever - keep it consistent.
  • Read the rulebook, front to back. Then read it again. Then keep a copy on hand.
  • If possible, go see (even better, shoot in) a big match like Canton or Camp Perry
  • Keep things moving, but don't rush the shooters*
  • Be honest, be kind, and be fair
  • Feedback is a gift


* Everybody wants the matches to get done quickly, but nobody wants to be rushed. Give plenty of time for the commands (those don't take up much time), and allow time for "not ready!"s, alibis, etc. The major time sink in a bullseye match is walking to the targets, scoring, pasting, and the associated bullshit. Do everything you can to expedite that process. If you are calling the line, walk out to the targets with the shooters. Carry a staplegun, extra staples, pasters, plugs, overlays, a rule book, and a Leatherman/multitool. Herd them along; chide them gently when they are being slow.

If it's the same person (people) over and over that are the last back from scoring, watch their process from start to finish. You'll soon find out the areas where you can cut some time.

Scoring is nothing more than writing down 10 numbers, putting in 4 staples, and walking back to the line. It doesn't need to take 15 minutes.

When everyone is back from downrange, start the commands ("Is the range clear?", etc.). This lets shooters know that you mean business, and that you're paying attention.
avatar
john bickar

Posts : 889
Join date : 2011-07-09
Location : Menlo Park, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by sixftunda on 1/28/2014, 5:41 am

Keep things moving during scoring, don't rush them when they are on the line.
avatar
sixftunda

Posts : 459
Join date : 2012-05-18
Age : 46
Location : North Central Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by TexasShooter on 1/28/2014, 6:56 am

What's the best way to run relays? This is the kind of thing where my lack of experience really shows. We'll have two relays even when we have more targets than shooters - it's the only way that I can shoot too. ...

Seems like letting relay 1 shoot the entire match, then repeat for relay 2, would be a little faster overall (less time used moving on and off the line). But that means half the folks are twiddling their thumbs for a long time.

Relay 1 shoots slow-fire, then relay 2 shoots slow-fire, repeat for timed and rapid? Keeps everyone more involved but more hassle.

Thoughts and opinions?

TexasShooter

Posts : 92
Join date : 2014-01-26
Age : 59
Location : Midland, TX

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by Rob Kovach on 1/28/2014, 7:14 am

once you learn how long a relay takes for the match program that you are doing, you can schedule the relays so the subsequent relay shooters don't even show up until the next relay starts.

I can't even imagine how terrible it would be to unpack my box, shoot 1 or 2 targets, pack everything back into my box, wait for another relay to shoot, unpack again, shoot again---don't run a match like that.  It sounds horrible.
avatar
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2702
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 44
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 1/28/2014, 7:28 am

Don't worry about the second relay twiddling their thumbs; they'll be too busy swapping lies.
In reality the second relay should be doing the scoring & logging the first.
It would be to your advantage to have someone else calling the line while you direct the parade.
jmo
avatar
STEVE SAMELAK

Posts : 494
Join date : 2011-06-10

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by TexasShooter on 1/28/2014, 7:37 am

I think it sounds horrible too. For the one match we've had so far we had more targets than shooters so it worked out ok - everyone shot slow-fire, then relays for timed and rapid. It wasn't great but no packing or unpacking.

How about some estimates for how long a relay should take? For this first match we shot .22 only, 90 shots and I'm sure we took longer than we should have because we were figuring things out, but what is typical? How would you schedule it?

For a 2 or 3 gun match, should we limit the number of entries or is there a way to schedule that?

I appreciate the responses, and forgive me if these things seem obvious to everyone here - I readily admit to being clueless, but I'm looking for those clues and this forum seems to be the best place to look.  Smile

TexasShooter

Posts : 92
Join date : 2014-01-26
Age : 59
Location : Midland, TX

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by 6M Firearms on 1/28/2014, 8:17 am

Where is the match you are running located?

6M Firearms

Posts : 15
Join date : 2013-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by TexasShooter on 1/28/2014, 8:29 am

6M Firearms wrote:Where is the match you are running located?

Midland, Texas. From what I can find the nearest matches are in Amarillo, about 3 1/2 hours away; and Dallas about 5 hours. I'll be trying to get to some of their matches but until I do I'm making it up as I go along (with good help from the very few experienced folks we have). We used to have matches here but lost our match director a couple of years ago and no one else could take over. Good facilities, good support from the club board of directors, very strong interest but nothing was happening so I jumped in head-first.

I know it was kind of odd to start running a match before shooting in a couple...kind of a "build it and they will come" game plan.

TexasShooter

Posts : 92
Join date : 2014-01-26
Age : 59
Location : Midland, TX

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by BE Mike on 1/28/2014, 8:41 am

A 900 point match should take about 1.5 hours. I've shot in matches with relays, when they divided up the match so that one shoots slow fire, packs up his gear and moves to the sustained fire range. I didn't personally care for it, although that is similar Camp Perry's program.

As suggested, get a volunteer to call the line; another to do the statistics and you collect fees and send in the paperwork. This may not be possible, but it is worth a shot.

After the match, get the results sent out quickly. Shooters don't want to wait weeks to see the match results.

BTW, I shot in a match in Midland, many more years ago than I like to remember. A shooter/ pistolsmith, named Don Judd was a great guy and took me to his shop, after the match, to fix my 1911 (the sight had come off). He was one heck of a nice guy and knew his way around guns.
avatar
BE Mike

Posts : 1499
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Indiana

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by CR10X on 1/28/2014, 4:15 pm

Texas:   Congratulations, you now have the best and worst job in shooting!  Keep your head together, read all you can, visit as many matches as possible and don't get discouraged. Here are some files that will help with the actual match commands.  Please review carefully, I did not check my edits.  The bold is the speaking part.  Hopefully I can get the old Bullseye Ency scoring program  located and send later if you want it. In addition, please post to the list any questions.  There are a lot of shooting "experts" that have opinions and want to vote;  but remember the guy that runs the match has the "say".
 Cecil

CR10X

Posts : 726
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by TexasShooter on 1/28/2014, 4:31 pm

Great responses, thank you! I especially like the scripts from CR10X - I had a script last weekend but not as good as this one (and I kept forgetting to use it).

How about some input from shooters? Pet peeves, likes, dislikes...
"I hate it when the match director ________."
"I love going to a match where _______."

Thanks again!

TexasShooter

Posts : 92
Join date : 2014-01-26
Age : 59
Location : Midland, TX

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by CR10X on 1/28/2014, 5:39 pm

Texas:   

One thing I like is a match that is run a close to possible as you can to a Regional Match or Camp Perry (Nationals).  Now, that doesn't mean have line officers, etc.  

But having the commands the same (or as close as possible, reason for having a script), good candence for the commands, turning targets that work and are numbered and / or colored according to the rules, a range official that knows how to use a plug, a match official that knows how to handle skidders, refires, crossfires, range alibis, knows when to read the rule book before making a call is greatly appreciated.

Now we as match directors do have to take our customers into consideration. For example I have to have a practice firing period for 10 minutes just so some can sight in their pistols from the previous nights gunsmithing :-)).  Otherwise they would riot on me.  (I know that most people don't have ready access to a range so they really need the sight in period.  Personally, I like to start just like Perry, set up on the line, first shot for score.  (So I generally sit out any practice periods at the local matches and it does not bother me at all).  

On the other hand, I will occasionally  have a "no alibi" match according to rule 10.10 (b).  Makes things a little more interesting and very helpful if you need matches to finish close to a specific time.     

I especially dislike it when the commands on returning to the line include "the (down) range is not safe, you may handle your guns"?!  The range should always be safe, the line can be safe and the range can be clear depending of what is happening. The rule book has the commands for good reasons; safety, consistency, and so the shooters know what to expect anytime they go to an NRA match.  

I'm also a big fan of having the targets prepasted and standing there for the shooters when they arrive. (One reason is that you will be sure to have the needed number of full face targets and backers since supplies seem to disappear from the range shed on a random basis at our range.)  To me it just looks great when the shooters arrive and there is a line of targets just waiting there for them.

A lot (really a LOT) of people will have ideas on how you can improve participation, make the match better, etc.  Some are useful, most are self serving, some are just unworkable, and some are just ....?   Like I said before, you can let everyone "vote" but you have the "say".  If they want to help out and try something different, then that is great.  I will tell you, its sometime hard to tell the talkers from the doers when you are on the line, but you damn sure can tell the difference when your the one behind the line.  And I appreciate every "Doer" no matter how they help out!  And no matter how much trouble it is to call the match, having to send a guy home for safety infraction, keep the club off your back, handle the money, scores, and endless questions, being the match director is really rewarding when someone says "Thanks, I had a great time!"  That will keep you coming back. 

Anyway, do your best, read the rule book a lot (and the wording is confusing sometimes so don't worry if it takes a couple of times to figure out what they are trying to say.  The answer to the question about why a rule is a certain way is that the rules are generally ment to be "fair" but also to make sure no one can take advantage of certain situations (such as an alibi, or a "cross fire" that was really just too many shots).

CR10X

Posts : 726
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by Vociferous on 1/29/2014, 10:02 am

We are truly fortunate in the central North Carolina/ Raleigh area.  Between Cecil's matches at Sir Walter and Clark's matches at DPRC, The Eastern Games at Camp Butner, and Bullseye leagues at Wake County (and Greensboro?), it's like we have an embarrassment of riches for Bullseye shooting. 

These match directors have my upmost respect and thanks.
avatar
Vociferous

Posts : 79
Join date : 2012-02-23
Age : 49
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by Joe L on 1/29/2014, 11:07 am

TexasShooter did a great job last Saturday!!  And now I know where he got the good advice.  

Next time will be even better...for the match director and for his participants, all of whom WILL learn to shoot better before the 4th Saturday in February. 

Joe

Joe L

Posts : 136
Join date : 2014-01-28

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by TexasShooter on 1/29/2014, 1:55 pm

Joe L wrote:TexasShooter did a great job last Saturday!!  And now I know where he got the good advice.  

Next time will be even better...for the match director and for his participants, all of whom WILL learn to shoot better before the 4th Saturday in February. 

Joe
Thanks Joe...

TexasShooter

Posts : 92
Join date : 2014-01-26
Age : 59
Location : Midland, TX

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by CrankyThunder on 1/29/2014, 5:26 pm

Dear Tex:

Congratulations on your recent promotion to match director!

I will also offer my condolences as well.

As a long time bullseye range officer that sometimes hears range commands in my sleep, I want to welcome you to the club.

With that being said, I want to encourage you to keep your primary responsibility to safety, I know its obvious but always needs to be kept in mind.

Now, as to examples of what not to do, I am able to dig deep into my vast experience with a couple of tips, tricks, and things to watch for, some of which actually have happened.

In order to prevent Yelling "Cease Fire" ten seconds into a timed fire string, keep a list of slow, timed, and rapid fire matches and cross the last one off so you can look at it and know if you are in a timed or a rapid fire match.

When all shooters have returned behind the line and you have authorized shooters to handle their guns, invariably a target will fall off the back board. Inform the line that a target need attention and go through the whole safety check and then ask all shooters to step back from the line. confirm the line is safe before sending the shooter back down with a new target.

At the end of the third slow fire string, do a quick glance at the targets posted. Invariably, a shooter will have grabbed four slow fire targets and have a slow fire target posted for a timed fire relay.

Hope this helps and I will be adding to it as I remember.

Regards,
Crankster
avatar
CrankyThunder

Posts : 118
Join date : 2012-03-03
Age : 59
Location : Burrokratic republik of Michigan, Cubicle LVW-2a19d, Rock #3

http://www.ccrcpistolteam.weebly.com

Back to top Go down

and in honor of my current teammates.............

Post by CrankyThunder on 2/1/2014, 6:07 pm

When you go to the line to call a match, make sure you check the microphone for healthy applications of fresh garlic and other obnoxious coatings.


thanx guys! your the bestest!


Regards,
Cranky
avatar
CrankyThunder

Posts : 118
Join date : 2012-03-03
Age : 59
Location : Burrokratic republik of Michigan, Cubicle LVW-2a19d, Rock #3

http://www.ccrcpistolteam.weebly.com

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by Joe L on 2/22/2014, 8:17 pm

TexasShooter directed our second club match today and did an excellent job again.  Thanks, TexasShooter.

Joe

Joe L

Posts : 136
Join date : 2014-01-28

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by TexasShooter on 2/24/2014, 7:02 pm

Joe L wrote:TexasShooter directed our second club match today and did an excellent job again.  Thanks, TexasShooter.

Joe

Thanks Joe...

It was a safe and fun match, the shooters seemed to enjoy it (even if they weren't all happy with their shooting), and we seem to be headed the right direction - 13 shooters last month, 19 this month. Hopefully that trend will continue.

I found the scores interesting - not surprising, but interesting. Last month (our first match) we shot .22 only and it was very competitive - not a massive difference between the old pros and the folks new to bullseye. This month we added center-fire and you could definitely see the gap widen. The more experienced shooters shot fairly consistently with both guns, while the newer folks saw some huge drops when they went to the bigger guns (in one case 80% with the .22, dropped to 33% center-fire). The old pros tend to have equipment more suited to precision shooting so equipment may be a small part of this, but it seems likely that experience is the bigger answer. Like I said, not surprising but it does emphasize the need for practice and match experience...

I'm still working on figuring out how to be match director and still get to shoot. Having a match is the priority right now so I'm not losing sleep over not getting to shoot. As we grow we're headed toward a morning relay and an afternoon relay, and as our shooters go through more matches we should be able to develop some more folks willing to help run a relay. When we get to that point I'll run one relay and shoot the other...if anyone has other suggestions I'd love to hear them.

Tex

TexasShooter

Posts : 92
Join date : 2014-01-26
Age : 59
Location : Midland, TX

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by CrankyThunder on 2/25/2014, 3:55 pm

Dear Tex:

the procedure we use to have the match director participate in the shoot is:

1) Match director calls and participates in the slow fires.
2) Match director calls the timed fire target for 1/2 of the line
3) Assistant match director calls timed fire target for match director and the half the line that did not shoot in step 2.

You got the idea.

REgards,
Cranky
avatar
CrankyThunder

Posts : 118
Join date : 2012-03-03
Age : 59
Location : Burrokratic republik of Michigan, Cubicle LVW-2a19d, Rock #3

http://www.ccrcpistolteam.weebly.com

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by TexasShooter on 2/25/2014, 4:13 pm

Thanks Cranky, I appreciate the response.

We do that in some of our other competitions and we actually tried that last month at our first match. Wasn't terrible, mainly because most of our folks were new and didn't know what to expect anyway. One of our guys is super helpful and pretty knowledgeable about competitions in general so he offered to call while I shot. Only problem is he is primarily a rifle guy, and very much a high power guy - the high power match commands just roll off his tongue automatically even when he's trying to think bullseye. The few experienced folks took it in stride, the newbies didn't look any more confused than normal, and I think the only ones that really noticed were me and him.

I think some of this will work itself out. We have a couple of more experienced folks coming back to join us next month, and they've already volunteered to help call whenever needed. If we grow a little more we'll have to go to two full relays anyway (more shooters than targets, nice problem to have). Even if we don't grow that much we'll follow your method once I get someone else comfortable calling the line...thanks!

TexasShooter

Posts : 92
Join date : 2014-01-26
Age : 59
Location : Midland, TX

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by john bickar on 2/25/2014, 9:49 pm

We run a league in (sunny) California and we rotate range master duties among all of us who are club members. We have a spring season and a fall season, each 6 months long with 2 matches per month, so 24 matches per year. Yeah, we shoot outdoors 12 months a year  Laughing 

I assign range master duty at the beginning of each season, and it usually works out so that each person only has to serve as range master once per season. Range masters are responsible for finding a sub for their given night if they can't make it.

We used to have a dedicated range master (and statistician) and he retired after many years of selfless service. Our club has a requirement that the range master cannot also shoot, so it was either we find a new full-time range master, share the load, or shutter the league.

When we started this setup, I expected a lot of shuffling and pushback, but it has run surprisingly smoothly for five or six years so far.

Not saying that this exact setup will work for you, but it sounds like you have a dedicated group of shooters, so trading off might help build your base of range masters, as well as give more people a vested interest in the success of your matches.
avatar
john bickar

Posts : 889
Join date : 2011-07-09
Location : Menlo Park, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: New match director

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum