Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

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Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:54 pm

I have only shot one bullseye match, last weekend, and it was 900 point, rimfire, outdoors.  Next match is 600 point rimfire plus 600 point centerfire.  I don't have anything but open sight 9mm for the centerfire.  I have really good results using a CZ P-09 so I got it out and tried it at the 25 yard distance yesterday, first time I had shot this handgun since New Year's Day.  Didn't do too poorly, so I think I am going to shoot it instead of my SIG P-226.  What do you think?  I have a lot of practice to do in rapid fire with this gun, but I think the plastic gun may work fine, at least for me, at my current experience level. 




This is fun.

Joe


Last edited by Joe L on Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Bullseye10X on Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:55 pm

Consistently scoring in the mid 90's?  Nothing wrong with that, especially since you haven't practiced.  Excellent!

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Jack H on Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:15 pm

Good targets.  A lot of folks would be more than happy with those targets.  

And good camera work.  I think more people should video themselves like that.  How do you do the two views?
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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:03 pm

Thanks, gentlemen.  I'm learning. 

Here is a little more information on the video production.

I set up one camera on a tripod off the right and a separate camera about 6 feet in front of the target but off line of fire a couple of feet.   Fill the frame of the target camera with the target.  Start recording.  Go back to the shooter camera which is prefocused manually on the pistol when pistol is in shooting position.  Start shooter camera, fire strings, unload and clear the gun, stop the recordings, move the target cam to the next target, start recording, repeat.  I also use a wireless lapel mic at the shooter cam with a wind sock. 

When I get home, I download all the video files to the computer, start Cyberlink Power Director 11 ($90?), call up the target cam shots and put them on one track, put the shooter cam files on another track, rename the files to match the target numbers, trim out all the dead video time, then sync the target cam takes to the shooter cam, then crop the shooter cam slightly, and crop, reduce, and mask the target cam track segments using the picture in picture mode in Power Director.  I'm getting to where I can build a fair video in an hour or so.  Sometimes I have to add a separate sound track.  It is almost as much fun as the actual shooting, but it is also a distraction when shooting--worrying about filling up a card, batteries going dead, starting/stopping the cameras, bumping the shooter cam and missing that 100-10x sequence, that sort of thing. 

One camera is a good prosumer grade Canon G30.  The target cam is an inexpensive, no frills, Canon R400.  I have a transmitter and receiver that I use for a target camera on a 500 meter precision rifle setup that I shoot when I want to relax from the pistols.  I've used it when shooting the pistols at 100 yards also.  Here is an example of the 100 yard pistol video, using the same CZ P-09 as I used in the video above. 



From a videographer's viewpoint, the video above is a disaster due to the backlighting, but I didn't try to fix it because of the weather.  From a shooter's perspective, the video works rather well, I think. 

I started making videos a few months ago. Much more experienced with the cameras and video than I am with Bullseye!!  But I will get there. 

Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Rob Kovach on Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:36 pm

Joe L,
Those videos are really cool.  Your shooting is exceptional.  That last 96 that you were showing looks like a 97 to me.  The area where the round passed through just has to touch the edge of the line so I think one of the shots that you called a 9 looks like a 10 to me.

Don't let anybody tell you that you need a purpose built bullseye gun to participate.  Your videos prove it is ok.  It looks to me that you are not creating any bad habits so roll with it.

Not to say you couldn't shoot better easier with a purpose built gun, but 97's are hard to shoot with the bullseye gun.  I wouldn't discourage you from shooting BE matches with that pistol--especially after seeing it group that well at 100 yards in the second video!!!
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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by TexasShooter on Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:06 pm

Dadgum...I knew Joe could shoot a gun that well, had no idea he was that good a shot with a video camera. Good job on both!

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by desben on Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:25 am

I wanted to say that I really enjoyed the video! Oh, and great shooting. This is inspiring for a young, cash-strapped shooter like me. Maybe I don't need a $2000 super accurate 1911 or .32 Pardini to start with... Maybe that $500 "combat" pistol could get me started and let me compete with centerfire much earlier. One wouldn't win the Olympics with that setup, but it looks like it would be sufficient to participate in a local match without being frustrated. I wonder how the scores would improve if the gun was upgraded to have precision target sights?
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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:29 am

Desben, trigger control is what you can learn with service pistol, and, at least it seems to me, that trigger control coordinated to sight alignment is more of a factor than the gun itself.  Yes, this particular gun is tight, but I have 3 other service type guns that I can shoot just as well. 

I did buy another taller front sight, added some JB weld to the sides, filed the top and smoothed the sides to get a 6 oclock hold at 25 yards with a very narrow gap on either side of the sight when centered in the stock rear sight.  It is too wide for quick targets in an IDPA match but perfect for precision shooting.  I also put a 13 lb hammer spring and a light firing pin and firing pin spring in it.  But, other than that, it is a $500 CZ service gun. 

My 22 is a Ruger 22/45 with an UltraDot and some Volquartsen trigger parts.  It is not a limitation at my current skill level, believe me.  My only other 22 is a CZ Kadet conversion on a 75B frame with 27k rounds through it over the last 3 years.  I would be perfectly happy shooting it in a match with the 22 and 9mm slides and open sights if I didn't have the Ruger and the plastic gun.  Nothing exotic.  If you have the fundamentals down you can shoot most mechanically sound guns well after just a few rounds to get familiar with the trigger mechanics. 

My mental state affects my ability to shoot the gun well more than the gun itself.  I can shoot a very expensive gun poorly if I am not executing the fundamentals correctly!!

Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:40 am

Here is a video I made for the gunsmith that is making some trigger parts for us CZ fans.  I think this was at 15 yards and the blue tape square is less than 2".  I wish I could say I planned this shot pattern, but I didn't.  I saw the pattern when editing the video and decided to use it to poke my good friend at CGW a little.




Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by BE Mike on Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:52 am

You have talent in both pistol shooting and camera work! Having fun is what it is all about.
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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Larry Lang on Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:59 am

Joe L wrote:<snip>

My mental state affects my ability to shoot the gun well more than the gun itself.  I can shoot a very expensive gun poorly if I am not executing the fundamentals correctly!!

Joe

So true!
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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:59 am

Thanks for the comments on the videos.  I've learned a lot from watching them.  You can see in the first post how long the reset is in the stock P-09.  You can also see how I try to take up a bunch of the creep before deciding to release the shot.  I have some parts coming to improve the trigger on the P-09, but I could live with it just the way it is if I had to. 

I do have trouble transitioning from the Ruger Volq trigger to the 9mm service gun, however.  I shot both this morning in very windy conditions.  There is no video (forgot my cameras) and there wouldn't be even if I had taken the time to set up.  I shot the 22 OK, 100 rounds, timed fire pace, 25 yards on B-8 targets, then put it up.  Got the P-09 out and shot 50 rounds at the same targets and pushed the shots slightly left and slightly low.  There was some glare on the left side of the sight from sun but the main problem I had was I was trying to get the sight alignment perfect in the wind, then forcing the trigger.  A good example of shooting a known good gun poorly due to moving away from the fundamentals.  I packed up and went home.  Dry fire tonight with the P-09.  And again tomorrow morning, then back to the range Sunday evening.  I will shoot the P-09 first, then the Ruger. 

This is fun. It is not easy.

Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:40 pm

Shot the P-09 late this afternoon in cold, wet, overcast conditions.  Still, shot it OK, just not consistently good on all targets.  Here are the best.  I only shot 70 rounds total, 50 at 5 25 yard targets bullseye stance, then 20 in 4 five shot groups to make and confirm a rear sight adjustment. 




Too cold to shoot bare handed, so I went home after 70 rounds.  Will install some aftermarket trigger parts in this pistol this week and shoot it again.

Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:47 pm

Put the new CGW hammer kit in the gun this afternoon and will shoot it on Sunday.  The creep is gone!  This gun has an excellent trigger now.  A little experimentation with the sear spring pressure and this gun will be finished, and I'm definitely using it in the next bullseye club match. 

Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:54 pm

Here is a video (made for a CZ forum) of how this gun shot today with the new parts.  It is good to go now.  The creep is gone and the "feel" is good now.  I'm very happy with it.  Will need to practice rapid fire but the trigger and sights are there now. 



Now, back to practicing with the Ruger and the P-09 for me.  1200 point match in two weeks.

Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:27 pm

I love watching your videos Joe!  You shoot great!
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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:42 am

Thanks, Rob.  I got my second P-09 pistol yesterday and will be setting it up for IDPA and will use this one for Bullseye, maybe even add a red dot to it if I can part with it long enough to get the slide machined. 

I enjoy making and editing the videos as much as shooting the guns, I think.  Videos are more fun when you learn how to hit the target, however.  And I never have to publish the "bad" targets!

For bullseye rapid fire, shooter still needs lots and lots of practice.

Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:55 pm

I was able to shoot the Ruger 22/45 first, 200 rounds, then the CZ P-09 without any practice rounds or dry firing.  I just hung some new B-8c targets, loaded up 10 rounds and shot the centerfire gun at 25 yards.  No problem at all today, mid 90's for 5 targets.  Changing out the trigger parts made the transition from the 22/45 to the centerfire P-09 easy.  No transition problems.  Here is a video of one 22/45 target and one P-09 target.



I can live with this plastic gun, I think.  Need to practice rapid fire over the next week. 

Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:13 pm

Put the red dot on my plastic bullseye gun today.  Match next weekend. 


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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:08 pm

Red Dot worked great.  Here is a video.  96-3x second target, 94-1x first one.  30 mph winds today out of the north. 




Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:36 am

Here is a video from a 100 yard session from a rest in tough conditions last Sunday morning.  This gun is pretty good. 




Some experienced bullseye shooters showed up for our match last weekend.  I finished 3rd at 87% with the plastic guns, LOL. 
Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:37 am

Another 100 yard target, this time wind was from the 3 o'clock direction, so held 12" high, 5" right.  First shot was a fluke, I'm afraid.  Should have stopped the video there, LOL.




This is fun.

Joe

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

Post by Joe L on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:42 pm

Well, the wind died down to 10 mph today for a while, so I shot the plastic gun at 25 yards at a bullseye target.  5 targets averaged 94-2x.  Here is the best one.  Goal is to score 100 timed fire by the end of the month.  The Burris sight has been rock solid.

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Re: Tried an open sight polymer 9mm for centerfire yesterday...may shoot it in Feb match

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