45LC vs 45ACP

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45LC vs 45ACP

Post by rodnak on Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:09 pm

I was wondering what thoughts there were on the accuracy of 45LC reloads vs 45ACP reloads?

I'm thinking of tracking down a S&W Model 25 to round out my collection of bullseye revolvers. But I noticed with some bullseye grips, the casings would have to be extracted one at a time. So it doesn't sound like the half or full moon clips for the 45ACP would work.

I do have a 1911 for the semi-auto side already. Just looking for an excuse to buy something else  Cool 

Thanks all,

Rod

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Re: 45LC vs 45ACP

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 pm

45 auto rim cases pop up from time to time so no need for moon clips

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Re: 45LC vs 45ACP

Post by rodnak on Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:01 pm

Thanks Steve,

I'm assuming it's simply a rimmed 45ACP case? So I would only need a different shell holder on the reloader?

Could you point me in the right direction to keep an eye out?

Rod

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Re: 45LC vs 45ACP

Post by rodnak on Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:09 pm

Cancel that Steve, thanks, found some

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Re: 45LC vs 45ACP

Post by james r chapman on Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:25 pm

.45 Long Colt??

no comparison....A big ol' blackpowder cartridge vs. a modern, more efficient cartridge... Smile

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Re: 45LC vs 45ACP

Post by Virgil Kane on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:10 am

If you look at 45LC's take some plug gauges with you. Many of the earlier ones have very large throats in the cylinders and that makes accuracy a challenge at best, .454 or larger throats and a .451 bore don't go real well together if your looking for an accurate handgun. I'm not sure of the numbers but if you look at the 625's and starting with the 625-7 I believe S&W got a handle on the throat size and for sure the 625-9's are correct throat size (.452). That being said I shoot a lot of 45LC in a Ruger Bisley and getting any kind of accuracy that is on par with a 45acp and BE shooting is going to take a lot of research and load development. Not that it can't be done but to tell the truth, it aint easy!

I would like to get a 625 Mt Gun in 45LC for hunting out to 50 yards but not for BE shooting. They are great guns if used for what they were designed for.

Virgil

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Re: 45LC vs 45ACP

Post by rodnak on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:32 am

Thank you James and Virgil. Looks like I'll go the 45 Auto Rim route...

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Re: 45LC vs 45ACP

Post by DavidR on Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:35 pm

Here is some info that might interest some, from a bullseye legend who was first to shoot 2650 with a revolver.
“Babe” Magnan’s Loads
Marty “Babe” Magnan of Leominster, Massachusetts, prides himself on shooting revolvers in Bullseye competition and with good cause. He was the first man to break 2,600 with a revolver in the National Championships at Camp Perry. He also was the first person to shoot above 2,650 with a revolver, a feat he has achieve four times.
He shoots Smith & Wesson double-action revolvers, firing them single action for all segments of the match. He even has different grips he designed and made himself that he changes, one for slow fire and another for rapid fire. He does this to reposition his thumb for rapid cocking during the rapid-fire segment.
In the Smith & Wesson Model 25-5 he uses .45 Auto-Rim cases from Remington. He says that ACP cases work fine using half-moon clips, but the auto rim cases are a lot more convenient.
“Those Smiths are fussy,” he says. “They usually won’t shoot well with most bullets. Hard ball or jacketed factory loads give poor accuracy, and a lot of guys get rid of the guns thinking they are no good. But, with the right load and bullet, they are X-ring shooters.”
Magnan experimented with dozens of different bullet molds and alloys, firing thousands of bullets to find something that shoots well. He said he actually wore out a Ransom pistol rest testing handguns. He says the only thing that will work for cast revolver bullets is Linotype. Anything softer will not shoot accurately. The primary reason is that the bullet will upset and bulge in the forcing cone, and while reforming it will not hold the rifling in the barrel.
He settled on the Hensley & Gibbs No. 78 mold. This mold is designed to cast a 215-grain bullet, but with the harder Linotype alloy, they weigh about 204 grains. This bullet was designed by the legendary Harry Reeves specifically for revolver shooting. It has a long body with a short nose and performs well in revolvers. Magnan has redesigned the bullet and built his own molds, keeping the long body, but lightening it to 175 grains. This keeps recoil down for faster recovery times and is very accurate. Because it is a long bullet, he seats it deep in the case and taper crimps on the front band, which is slightly undersized. With the long bullet seated deep in the case he decreases the powder space, raising pressures, and is able to get higher velocities with lighter-than-expected powder charges. He lubes all his bullets with Alox that he makes himself.
All the cases are primed with Federal Large Pistol primers.
When developing a load with a new lot of powder he adjusts the powder charge until he reaches a velocity of 825 to 850 fps. He says this is the most accurate speed band he has found. He likes a slightly higher velocity to decrease the time in the gun for the bullet, which he feels is conducive to improved accuracy.
He formerly used Dupont P-5066 powder because it was bulky and filled the cases well with light charges, but it has been discontinued for years and his supply is low. Lately, he has been using Scot 453, which is a duplication of the old 452AA powder, but the plant that makes it burned down and now that isn’t available.
Magnan says he also uses 4.6 grains of Winchester 231 with good results, but that most of his loads are now built with Green Dot powder, usually about 4.6 grains for 50-yard loads and 4.3 grains for 25-yard loads. But, again, he adjusts the exact charge for that lot of powder to produce the velocities he wants.
Rather than the fast-burning Bullseye powder favored by 1911 shooters, he likes a slower-burning power so that the initial acceleration is a little slower. In a revolver, this progressive burn rate creates less bullet upset in the cylinder and forcing cone. This improves accuracy. He still achieves the desired velocity by using a slightly higher charge weight of the slower powder.
Federal Factory Recommendations
Gunbuilder Jim Clark, Jr., says he shoots the traditional load of a 185-grain cast bullet from a Hensley & Gibbs mold for all his 25 yard Bullseye work. He uses 3.5 grains of Bullseye powder. But if he has a scope mounted on the slide of the 1911 he ups the charge to 3.9 grains to allow for the increased weight on the slide and to ensure positive cycling of the action. He further notes that at 50 yards he shoots Federal 185-grain factory loads.
“Federal publishes the group sizes of a given lot of ammo,” he said. “If they are particularly good the government buys up the lot for their shooters, but once in a while we get our hands on some of the good stuff. It can’t be beat at the 50-yard line where accuracy is so important.”
Legendary military shooter Bill Blankenship agreed. He said, “We just shoot factory ammo and if a lot is good we buy the whole thing.”
Another top shooter, Jim Fulwood of Atlanta, shoots for police teams, and he dittos these two shooters’ remarks. He shoots only Federal factory loads, which he says duplicates the performance of Magnan and Farley’s handloads.

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Re: 45LC vs 45ACP

Post by rodnak on Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:09 pm

Fascinating! Thanks DavidR

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Re: 45LC vs 45ACP

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