ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

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ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by ebrem on 3/9/2014, 11:03 am

Hello

I have the opportunity to purchase this Rock River 45acp but have some questions before I purchase it.  I am not familiar with Rock River guns, or their configurations,other than I am aware of how well regarded they are.
I need some help identifying if this Rock River 45, and would be very grateful foray help questions is:

1.  Is this a Wad Gun.
2.  Is this Hammer shown in these photo's Original to the gun, and if so, why do they use this hook installation.
3. The price is $1495.

What is puzzling is that you can not pull the Hammer back, due to the overhanging adj. sight on the BoMar rib.
You must rack the slide in order to cock the Hammer.  Why would RR design this configuration it renders it a single action gun.
Any help regarding these questions would greatly appreciated.

Best regards,, 
Ed Burke 
   
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Last edited by ebrem on 3/9/2014, 4:58 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/9/2014, 12:50 pm

My crystal ball says that the hammer doesn't match the apparent age of the other parts.

When you see the iron sight rib, that usually means it's an older vintage gun that would have had a gi style grip safety and hammer.

"is it a wad gun"

Insofar as the hammer and grip safety are not legal on a ball gun, that would indicate to me that it was setup to be a wad gun.

you could probably remove that bo-mar rib and replace it with a scope rail and red-dot.  We can't speak for any of the other qualities of the gun. If it is accurate at 50 yards and the trigger feels good then good to go.
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by AllAces on 3/9/2014, 1:29 pm

Bo-Mar rib, aftermarket trigger, looks like a drop-in grip safety. Check the recoil spring weight and trigger pull.  If it shots good at 50 yds, use as is or install a dot.
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by ebrem on 3/9/2014, 4:55 pm

Hello

Interestedly I found an individual a gun site who purchased a NEW Rock River 45 Wad gun Directly from RR (waiting 4 months for it) that has the SAME HAMMER (you can see the hook on the Hammer more clearly on the Hogue griped gun)  that I am speaking of.  
See attached photo and comment.
The next question is WHY A BoMar rib that extends over the hammer that Disallows cocking the hammer.  I can't figure that out.
So Please let me know what your opinions might be.

Thank you.


[size=13][size=13][size=13][size=13][size=13][size=13][size=13][size=13][size=13][size=13][size=13][size=13]Back in the early 60's I shot on the pistol team at Itazuke Air Force Base in Japan. The Air Force provided us with a pistol box with a wonderful assortmentof hardware.

After 40 years, I began shooting Bullseye again in January of 2004. I started with a Ruger Mark II and soon acquired a S & W model 15. Still, I had a longing for an "accurized" .45 like the Air Force had loaned me. 

I did a lot of reading and talking and finally decided on a Les Bare or a Rock River. The tie breaker was the fact that two friends in my Bullseye league shoot and really like their Rock Rivers.

Early in January I called RRA and talked to Yalonda. She said lead times were running around 4 to 6 months for the Bullseye Wadcutter pistol. I called my FFL person, laid down my $200 deposit and the wait began. On Tuesday in the second week of April my FFL person called to say the pistol would ship as soon as RRA had the balance. I picked up my Bullse
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by CR10X on 3/9/2014, 5:21 pm

Guys:  

As far as I can tell this is a perfectly acceptable Bomar Rib on a Rock River gun.  The Hammer is a special that Mark came up with to help people cock a dot sighted gun.   A bomar was designed for the regular 1911 hammer configuration. That's  why it looks off.  This would be a great gun to start open sights with and then easily convert to a slide mount dot sight.  I can't comment on the grip safety or trigger.

At worst case this was a RR with a slide mount that went to a Bomar.  I dount it was a RR Hardball gun converted to a high grip safety and added a rib.
   
As long as its frame and slide are tight tight, no barrel problems (buldges, cracked lower lug, etc) , and the bushing is OK, I'd take it.   Anything else you would want to change would be pretty cheap.  

And since youj can't get a RR 1911 frame and slide anymore.....


Just my 2.75 cents.

Cecil

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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by BE Mike on 3/10/2014, 9:03 am

1911's are single-action pistols. IMHO, Rock River made some of the most accurate and reliable 1911's ever made. The price isn't too bad, if the gun shoots well. These pistols came with a scope mount. The Bo-Mar rib, being attached after-market is why the hammer is hard to reach, because the rear sight hangs over the rear, whereas the scope mount does not. Scope mounts, like the one Clark makes can be attached by just removing the screws of the Bo-Mar rib and screwing on the Clark scope mount. The hole pattern in the slide and the screw sizes are the same, so it's easy.
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by DavidR on 3/10/2014, 9:37 am

Rock River no longer builds 45s, they stopped when all the ar15 craze caught fire, Chuck said it was more profitable to use his people to build rifles so he stopped, this was several years ago. Ive owned several of his guns and have one now, the first thing about this pistol is that rib never came on a RR it was probably added by a previous owner, the hammer was used on latter guns chuck built, but I have never seen a slide with that 1911 A1 markings, chuck used unmarked slides however the slide serrations do look like the ones on my gun, like others have said if it shoots good at 50 yards and the frame to slide fit and lockup are tight its not a bad price, the last price chuck gave me for a wad gun was 2500.00 dealer cost, 2750.00 retail
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by BE Mike on 3/10/2014, 10:01 am

Actually, I have seen various photos of the Rock River 1911's with the 1911A1 stamped into the slide.
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by CR10X on 3/10/2014, 4:40 pm

Yes, on the 1911-A1 marked slides, RR used them as well.
 
And I know of at least 2 that came with a bomar slide since the customer supplied them to be mounted.  Same for frame mounts instead of slide. 

Remember, Chuck and the shop guys would do about anything (open sights, frame mount, bomar ribs, 20, 25, 30 LPI checkering, etc.) you wanted if you just asked.  It would be very hard to say what actually came on the gun without the build-sheet and the original (and any follow up) customer order form. You can probably call if its that important. 


Personally, I'd snatch it up at that price if I didn't already have one for every day of the the week.......

Cecil

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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by ebrem on 3/10/2014, 7:07 pm

Gentlemen

I called Mark (Gunsmith and builder of RRA Wad guns) at Rock River Arms this afternoon and forwarded photos of the gun (listed above) which all of you were being so kind to help puzzle out (incidentally I did purchase it).
He informed me after researching his records and viewing the photos that this gun was built March 31, 2006, as a 5" Wad gun and had the Customer Order Form to read from.

I was surprised what Mark had said; This gun in the photos above was built for the Customer in this Exact Configuration.  The customer would have to rack the slide to cock the hammer, Mark said he did not build too many like this (with this hammer and the BoMar rib combination) but, this is what the customer ordered.  This is "The Original Build that RRA did for their customer".

The Model 1911-A1 Roll Mark was used after a certain date (he couldn't quite remember when at that moment) on all RRA guns because the ATF wanted the gun described in a clearer manner, so they chose this description, prior to this the RRA guns has No Roll Mark on their slides.  All of the RRA Wad and Hard Ball guns were blued or hard chromed (if the customer chose to).
They did use BoMar Ribs as well at the customers request

Pretty interesting saga that we all were working on, I have to thank you all for being so supportive and helpful, it was quite a ride and in the end it is what it is.

A great website and a great bunch of Gentlemen.


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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by BE Mike on 3/11/2014, 8:31 am

I think you got a great pistol at a fair price. I was always surprised by how tight the slide to frame fit was on the new RR guns, but they always seem to function well right out of the box with light bullseye loads. The tightest 10 shot machine rest group I ever saw, from any pistol, was from a NIB Rock River shot at 50 yards. It was sub 1". The owner used the Nosler bullet and Alliant Bullseye powder. Good shooting.
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by DavidR on 3/11/2014, 9:41 am

Great info and sounds like you got a great price.
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by ebrem on 3/12/2014, 7:53 am

Gentlemen

I forgot to mention; Mark said that Chuck wanted Mark to build 130 Wad and Hardball guns for the next visit to Camp Perry for $2200. per gun.
I think this is a fine opportunity to get a RR gun at a fair price.

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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by DavidR on 3/12/2014, 11:14 am

Maybe the AR15 craze has fizzled to the point of going back in the 1911 business, hope the quality holds up to past guns if they do.
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by spursnguns on 3/12/2014, 12:10 pm

I have heard that all of their "eggs" are in their new plastic framed pistol "basket" for now and steel M1911's are not currently in the plans.

Jim
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

Post by DavidR on 3/12/2014, 3:12 pm

spursnguns wrote:I have heard that all of their "eggs" are in their new plastic framed pistol "basket" for now and steel M1911's are not currently in the plans.

Jim

Same as I heard but others here say different, the plastic gun was a flop, with many issues in its first release, maybe they will get the bugs out but its a non interest item for me.
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Re: ROCK RIVER HAMMER QUESTION (ORIGINAL?)

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