22 rapid fire sequence analysis

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22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/21/2014, 9:16 pm

I overlaid a timer with the video in the 10 shot 25 yard target.  I wasn't using the mp3 player while actually shooting, so this pace is what I needed to get good hits.  In the video, I actually have the first shot a little too soon relative to the horn, so the end shot is actually later than indicated in the video. 

I don't have a rhythm to the shooting at all.  I suppose that is what I need to work on.  If I can establish a rhythm, I think I can get close making the shots AND beating the target turning.  Thoughts?  Advice?




Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Rob Kovach on 4/21/2014, 10:01 pm

Joe,

I hate the concept of "rhythm" shooting.  I am much happier that you were concentrating on shooting good shots instead of forcing a shot to happen in some "rhythm".  I thought that was great.
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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by SMBeyer on 4/22/2014, 7:57 am

You need to shoot with the commands running.  Doing it this way you are you are just starting the timer when the first shot goes off and then giving it 10 more seconds.  You can hold and squeeze for 8 seconds on that first shot and it doesn't hurt you without the commands, not the case with them.  If you shoot with timer it decides when you start and the time starts wether you have that first shot off or not.  And ends wether you have the fifth one off too!  And you can have the hesitation.  Not all shots have to be evenly spaced they just have to be in the center and within the time allowed.

Scott
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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by BE Mike on 4/22/2014, 8:02 am

I like the concept of training to shoot tens at the short line and over a period of training sessions, work on getting them off in less time, until one can shoot ten tens in 9 seconds. This would not discount the importance of getting the first shot off (a ten) within a second of the targets facing.
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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/22/2014, 9:06 am

Thanks for the comments and suggestions.  With my son there, impending rain, running the cameras and audio, and still trying to fire off 10 10's, adding the mp3 player just wasn't possible.  I will have access to the turning targets next week, so I will be able to use both the commands and physically turn the same targets we use in a match.  Maybe by that time, I will learn speed up a little and still hit nearly all 10s.  

Hitting 8's in eight seconds isn't a problem, LOL.

Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Dave C. on 4/22/2014, 9:50 pm

Joe
Leave the camera an home and focus on task at hand.

Dave C.
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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Jack H on 4/22/2014, 11:08 pm

Joe, DC is right.  Your camera shots are good enough.  It is time you use the commands and shoot for good shots in ten seconds.  Remember you can raise the loaded pistol only after "ready on the right".  And don't worry about the definition of cadence or rhythm.  I use the R word for the  flow of performance.  Consider it like a rowing crew.  Each stroke can be in a cadence.  But the crew has to be in rhythm to have good cadence.  And if in 10 seconds you get only 4 shots off, and they are good shots, that is good.  Just keep shooting good shots a little faster.  Often the first shot is too slow going off, use the last part of the commands to prepare the first shot.


Last edited by Jack H on 4/24/2014, 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/23/2014, 8:34 pm

Dave C. wrote:Joe
     Leave the camera an home and focus on task at hand.

Dave C.

Yes, I can do that. 

Yep, time to focus on the timer and getting good shots in the allotted time. 

Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/24/2014, 9:09 am

Thanks everyone for the help.  I'm so new to this that I revel in every little accomplishment and step forward on the learning curve.  Perhaps overdoing it, but I used to concentrate on the misses and that is definitely counterproductive. 

I had back surgery on Wednesday (L3/L4 laminectomy and bone spur removal) but still plan to participate in the monthly club match this coming Saturday, if possible, back brace and all.  Since I have a built in excuse, perhaps I will relax and shoot as well as I do in practice, on average.  

Thanks again for telling me what I need to do to continue improving.  I'll simplify things a little and just shoot 10s. 

Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/25/2014, 5:06 pm

OK, I couldn't resist.  I went to the range today, back brace and all, and shot 50 rounds 22 rapid fire, and 50 rounds 9mm rapid fire, using the mp3 player and commands.  Here is the best of the 22.  Didn't do as well with the 9mm, LOL.  But, this is what I need to practice.  Very windy today also. 




At least I only set up one camera today. 

Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Rob Kovach on 4/25/2014, 6:44 pm

Looked great to me!  Great shootin!
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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/25/2014, 7:28 pm

Thanks, Rob.  I averaged 93.6 for five targets, made the time limit each time.  I think I can average 95 or better with a few more sessions.

With the 9, I am rushing the shots instead of getting back on target fast, then releasing the shot.  It will take me a few weeks to consistently shoot above 92 in rapid fire with the 9.  But I'm not scared of it. 

A good short session today, back brace and all.  Very happy, so I will go in to the match on Saturday confident and relaxed. 

Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/26/2014, 2:45 pm

Got to participate in the 1800 match this morning, back brace and all.  Our match director did another excellent job.  Shooters needed work, LOL. 

I did much better in rapid fire today than in the earlier match, but faltered in slow fire of all things.  Shot a 95 in rapid fire with the 9mm plastic gun and a 98 in timed fire with the 22.  But there were some really bad targets as well.  I think I shot my best and worst targets for each course of fire today for the 2014 matches I've competed in.  

No stovepipe problems with the 22 today after trimming the magazines for the Ruger, and the CZ 9mm is always 100%.  This is the first match where I haven't had problems with the 22. 

What I learned is that I need to practice under match conditions, with commands, with the targets turnings, on the same range where we have our matches.  That is what my bullseye buddies and I will be working on over the next month.  Practice under match conditions.  No video, no experimenting with the hardware.  Just execution under the required courses of fire.

And my back will be healed up a little better from surgery than it was today.  That will be good. 

Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by BE Mike on 4/27/2014, 7:09 am

Joe L wrote:Got to participate in the 1800 match this morning, back brace and all.  Our match director did another excellent job.  Shooters needed work, LOL. 

I did much better in rapid fire today than in the earlier match, but faltered in slow fire of all things.  Shot a 95 in rapid fire with the 9mm plastic gun and a 98 in timed fire with the 22.  But there were some really bad targets as well.  I think I shot my best and worst targets for each course of fire today for the 2014 matches I've competed in.  

No stovepipe problems with the 22 today after trimming the magazines for the Ruger, and the CZ 9mm is always 100%.  This is the first match where I haven't had problems with the 22. 

What I learned is that I need to practice under match conditions, with commands, with the targets turnings, on the same range where we have our matches.  That is what my bullseye buddies and I will be working on over the next month.  Practice under match conditions.  No video, no experimenting with the hardware.  Just execution under the required courses of fire.

And my back will be healed up a little better from surgery than it was today.  That will be good. 

Joe
You are indeed fortunate. Most folks will have a gun that they never have any problems with during training and then act up in a match. Keep a diary and a record of your scores. That way you'll be able to note lessons learned and have a realistic view of just what needs the most work. As someone said, don't worry about the other shooters, just compete with yourself. You are also on track with training as close to match conditions as possible. Try to learn something from each shot during training. Lastly, remember to have fun.
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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/27/2014, 5:26 pm

BE Mike--Thanks for the reminder to have fun and to keep a diary.  I went to the range this morning and set up a bay as close to the bullseye range setup as I could.  Used an iPhone timer app for all three courses of fire.  Only put up 3 targets for the 22 and 3 for the 9mm and shot 30 rounds at each target, so 90 rounds per gun, 180 total, same as our 1800 club match.  I didn't do the NMC sequence, however.  But, I did do the slow fire slowly, resting the gun between shots, and executing slow fire without any cameras.  Then timed fire, 5 rounds at a time for 30 rounds, ditto timed.  Then switched to the 9 and repeated. 

I didn't even score the targets until I got home.  It was very windy 20-30 mph and gusty.  Raw scores weren't important to me.  What was interesting is that I had a few more points with the 9mm than with the 22 and the slow score was the highest, then timed, then rapid, but only 5 percentage points span over all three.  This was a good practice session--match courses of fire instead of shooting for a video, and no distractions other than the wind. 

And no malfunctions with the 22 or the 9 again today.  I haven't had a stovepipe in the Ruger since trimming the left rear magazine lip. 

So, a good day trying to get my head screwed on straighter, that's for sure. 

Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/28/2014, 12:57 pm

I also contacted the two shooters with higher scores than mine from last Saturday.  I asked for training advice and we will meet up next week.  They are both experienced shooters but have been away from bullseye for 10-12 years, so they are a little rusty still.  But they know what they are doing and are willing to help me one-on-one.  Can't get any better than that.  I'll listen, too.

...no videos while practicing...

Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by CR10X on 4/29/2014, 3:19 pm

Sorry, but I've been watching the videos and comments and I would like to make 2 suggestions.

(1) Train, do not practice until you have finished training.  Practicing will generally get you exactly where you have planned to go (nowhere). If we don't have a specific destination or purpose how will we get better?  Train on the specifc parts that need improvement, (sight alignment, trigger process, whatever.)  So turn that target around and shoot groups with a specifc purpose on a blank target.

(2) If the first shot isn't a 10, then you can't shoot a 100. Try training with a single shot on a 2 or 3 second turning target until you can see a 10 being shot. 

Just a couple of comments.   Good shooting and keep focused on the goal.

Cecil

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 4/30/2014, 8:37 am

CR10X--Thanks.  Hopefully, the two experienced shooters who have volunteered to help me will identify and prioritize what I need to train.  
Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 5/11/2014, 12:06 pm

OK, gentlemen, I'm recovering well from back surgery and have made 3 trips to the range without using the video cameras.  I've also used the recorded range commands for every single shot and am becoming much more comfortable shooting rapid fire strings with both pistols.  I've also become very comfortable, if not accurate, shooting in some rather stong, gusty, 30 mph West Texas spring winds. 

As is per usual, you guys were right, concentrate on the task at hand, simulate match conditions as much as possible, shoot 10s. 

Thanks,
Joe

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Re: 22 rapid fire sequence analysis

Post by Joe L on 5/21/2014, 6:10 am

Another couple of weeks of practice once/twice per week.  I've got a practice procedure now.  I use the bullseye range and B-8c targets at 25 yards.  Three targets per gun, 30 shots/target, so I shoot 3 targets with the 22 then 3 with the 9mm.  One slow (although on a B-8c target), 1 timed, 1 rapid, with each gun.  I don't look at or score the targets until they are done, and I use the recorded mp3 commands for each string, use the chamber flag, same layout of stuff on the table as in a match, everything similar to match conditions except no target turning and the shooting time is greatly condensed due to no minimal target changes and no scoring. 

This simulates an 1800 point match.  I've slowed down in slow fire and sped up in rapid fire without dropping points.  Whole session takes about 1.5 hours at the range.  If I added some breaks it would take about 2 hours.  About perfect. 

This has helped.  I am now consistently in the 90's with all hits on paper.  Best is 95 for the 22 and 94 with the 9mm, both last night.  Will get some B-16C targets to use in slow fire, same as match. 

Joe

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