Different Revolver Grips

Go down

Different Revolver Grips

Post by Profe5s0r on 5/4/2014, 1:42 pm

So, I've recently started the switch to shooting revolvers in production division for NRA matches and have a few questions.
During a match last month, I had a pretty good group during slow fire, but one round went very high, visible miss but perfectly centered. I was shooting the same grip that I used during cadence fire and a gentleman informed me that I could use a "High" grip to avoid those flyers (since that was indicative of breaking my wrist).
Can anyone give me tips on how to get a good high grip? I'm thinking that I'm doing alright, but want a bit of a sanity check. How about the low grip? I'm currently developing my low grip by placing my thumb on the hammer and my finger where I want it on the trigger and then just wrapping the rest of my fingers around the grip.
Also, what grips are currently legal for distinguished revolver and production division? The grips that came on my Smith 617 have finger grooves, and I've seen a lot of factory grips with finger grooves too. I'd like to use the same kind of grips for all three wheel guns, but want to remain legal for production class, and/or distinguished revolver matches.
Any other tips in wheel gun technique is greatly appreciated.
avatar
Profe5s0r

Posts : 47
Join date : 2014-04-26
Age : 47
Location : Birmingham, AL

http://www.DistinguishedPrecision.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by LenV on 5/4/2014, 2:15 pm

I am sure that you read the regulations on production class pretty much anything goes except thumb rest grips.For the DSR matches it says that the grips have to be mirror image of each other and not have any flare on the base.If a grip is legal for DSR it would be legal for production.The grips on your factory 617 would be fine.As far as high and low grips go I am not the one to help you.I tuck my little finger completely under an N  frame grip and still barely have room for the rest of my hand. I posted on your introduction page but in case you don't get back to it You should know there is a 6" limit on revolver barrels for production class.That means the 625 your looking for may not qualify.The 5" would be fine.
Len
avatar
LenV

Posts : 2814
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Profe5s0r on 5/4/2014, 4:33 pm

I do have the barrel length down, and I think even my K38 comes in right at 6". My .22 is a 4" and though I don't like the look as much when it's sitting on the bench, the only view that counts is from the rear!lol!
avatar
Profe5s0r

Posts : 47
Join date : 2014-04-26
Age : 47
Location : Birmingham, AL

http://www.DistinguishedPrecision.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by LenV on 5/6/2014, 10:16 pm

I actually did a search here of every discussion they have had on this forum and I can not find where anyone  has talked about "follow through". Instead of a wrist breaking problem you may have had a follow through problem. On a rounded grip like most revolvers the recoil will try to roll the pistol up in your hand. A tighter grip high or low would solve most of the problem. The other part of the problem I have found and the thing that stops the high flyers is to try to follow through on the shot. Try to keep your sights aligned during recoil.I did say" try" to keep them aligned. This gives the bullet more time to clear the longer revolver barrels. I knew a 7th Army shooter that could flip a 1911 while firing it and have a 45 bullet tumble into a target. His way (SSG Francois) of teaching how important follow through was. If you have ever fired black powder you probably have some experience with what can happen with poor follow through.

Len
avatar
LenV

Posts : 2814
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 68
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Rob Kovach on 5/6/2014, 10:27 pm

I couldn't agree more.  You really have to hold a .38spl in there as best you can all the way through recoil.  Follow through is so very important with a 6" barrel revolver.
avatar
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2702
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 44
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by davekp on 5/7/2014, 8:08 am

Had a chance to watch the AMU shooters 2 weeks ago at the Dixie Sectional. Every one of them returns to the target after the shot breaks before putting the gun down. Their shot process doesn't end when the shot breaks-only after returning to the target.

davekp

Posts : 315
Join date : 2011-06-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Profe5s0r on 5/7/2014, 3:05 pm

Roger that! It's always the little things...but if that is the case, when shooting cadence fire, is it that follow through is consistent since you are going for the hammer to cock it the same way every time? Should I go back to using the same grip for slow fire as I do for the short line and then be consistent in follow through?
avatar
Profe5s0r

Posts : 47
Join date : 2014-04-26
Age : 47
Location : Birmingham, AL

http://www.DistinguishedPrecision.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Rob Kovach on 5/7/2014, 5:39 pm

I reject the notion of "cadence" fire.  I go through my shot process and shoot 5 good shots according to that process within the time allowed.  There is no sense in pulling the trigger to maintain a "cadence" if there is something not quite right.  I pause ever so slightly to complete whatever step in the process isn't quite right, then proceed.  Even with this, I hardly ever---like 3 times in my whole life--have been late getting shots off.

I also think we aren't on the same page about grip vs. follow through.  I reject the idea that changing the position of the grip has anything to do with the importance of the follow through.

Davekp is talking about slow fire observations with AMU shooters--they return the sight to target before putting the gun down. 

When shooting the revolver single action, my follow through is me "trying" to hold the sight still through the entire recoil, and that step in the shot process isn't "over" until the recoil is completely done moving the gun.  The next step in the process AFTER all that is done is to reach up and recock.  I can only execute well if I follow the steps in the process--i can't just go through the motions in a cadence and expect a good result.

I think the most important function of the grip is to consistently have the hand-gun interface in a position that allows the trigger finger to do its job without moving the sights.  I personally can't imagine having a "slow fire" grip AND a different timed/rapid fire grip.  I think that would lead to lower scores in both stages.  Your processes should emphasize the same steps in the process and add to the repitition.

that's just how I see it from my perspective.  Your results may vary.
avatar
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2702
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 44
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by davekp on 5/8/2014, 7:13 am

Rob Kovach wrote:
When shooting the revolver single action, my follow through is me "trying" to hold the sight still through the entire recoil, and that step in the shot process isn't "over" until the recoil is completely done moving the gun.  The next step in the process AFTER all that is done is to reach up and recock.  I can only execute well if I follow the steps in the process--i can't just go through the motions in a cadence and expect a good result.


Are you left hand cocking for sustained fire?

davekp

Posts : 315
Join date : 2011-06-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Rob Kovach on 5/8/2014, 7:50 am

no. I recock with my shooting hand.  I "reach up" with my thumb.
avatar
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2702
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 44
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Profe5s0r on 5/8/2014, 9:51 am

What was recommended to me, and what I was experimenting with was a "High" grip, where the webbing of my hand is very high along the back strap, which gives a grip angle much closer to a free pistol. With that grip, you must cock with the non-shooting hand, but it's slow fire.
During anything on the short line, I get my grip based on the relationship between my thumb/hammer and index finger/trigger for thumb cocking.
During slow fire with that grip, it is much easier for me to mentally follow through back to the target before putting the gun down. However, I have not been consciously thinking about follow through during timed and rapid, as my process there is to cock during recoil and be back on target beginning the process again. I'm shooting good groups on the short line, so whether the semantic definition of "Follow through" is happening or not, the effect is still consistent.
I don't necessarily believe that proper follow through can only be performed by "watching the sights all the way through recoil until they come back to rest in your aiming area, at which point you can then begin your shot process for the next shot". You definitely don't see that in Olympic rapid fire competitors, but you do see consistent movement which is repeatable...
Having been taught the technique of pressing the trigger while sight alignment develops, as had others with a Marine Corps background, I do think there is something to be said for that technique. What this teaches is the ability to allow your subconscious to perform instead of the trap of "Trying", which often results in forced shots.
avatar
Profe5s0r

Posts : 47
Join date : 2014-04-26
Age : 47
Location : Birmingham, AL

http://www.DistinguishedPrecision.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Rob Kovach on 5/8/2014, 5:34 pm

Profe5s0r wrote:I don't necessarily believe that proper follow through can only be performed by "watching the sights all the way through recoil until they come back to rest in your aiming area, at which point you can then begin your shot process for the next shot".
I agree with you.  What you described is not a part of my shot process, but I see it is part of many military shooter's shot process.  My shot process ends when the recoil is over--as in the recoil isn't moving the pistol anymore. 
Maybe some of the Masters can weigh in on whether or not that's a bad habit...
avatar
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2702
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 44
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Profe5s0r on 5/12/2014, 9:34 am

Well, I will say this, if nothing else, shooting revolvers will apparently make you a better pistol shooter too! Shot a match last weekend where I won my first overall 2700 and a PR for the .45. I started out shooting my Smith 617 for the .22 then my K38 for Centerfire. When I got back on the .45, my slow fire worked itself out and I was shooting very well at the 50. Equaled my slowfire PR and ended the NMC with another PR, a 280! The rest of the .45 stayed at a high level and really helped to bring up my overall. Thanks for Joel Mitchel and the Magic City Gun Club for a great match!
avatar
Profe5s0r

Posts : 47
Join date : 2014-04-26
Age : 47
Location : Birmingham, AL

http://www.DistinguishedPrecision.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Axehandle on 5/14/2014, 6:38 am

Follow through?  Front sight?  My intent is to keep my focus where the front sight is and where it will return to when I recover from recoil.  My old head and eyes aren't fast enough to follow the sight through recoil.  Want to check out your follow through and be able to watch your front sight through recoil?  Shoot some air pistol. 
 
I like the grip question.   Just read a post on another forum from a VERY experienced older shooter about accuracy differences with wood and rubber grips.   He wrote that that he had tested extensively and found a measurable accuracy difference.  The wood grips shot better.  Personally I am playing with the rubber Pachmyer Gripper and Presentation grips.  May need to try the Hogue too.  Since the finger grooves lock your hand into one position I'm thinking that the grooveless presentation grip may turn out to be the best.

Axehandle

Posts : 528
Join date : 2013-09-17
Location : Alabama

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by james r chapman on 5/14/2014, 10:12 am

several of the top-o-the-heap National Border Patrol PPC have told me the same thing. Wood maintains accuracy better when situations change your grip pressure.

jim
avatar
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 2447
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 69
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Profe5s0r on 5/14/2014, 11:00 am

I can see that. My goal is to have as little change between my different revolvers as possible. I also find that with rubber grips, my sweaty hands become an issue. I'll be looking for some distinguished revolver legal grips that I can also get for an N-frame...
avatar
Profe5s0r

Posts : 47
Join date : 2014-04-26
Age : 47
Location : Birmingham, AL

http://www.DistinguishedPrecision.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Different Revolver Grips

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum