Using Lead and FMJ in match

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Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by Otiso on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:08 pm

Would there be any problems using FMJ for slow fire and lead for timed and rapid? I shot 50 lead rounds the other day, and after looking through the barrel, I can't see any leading.

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by Schaumannk on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:47 pm

A lot of people do that.   I would prefer to shoot lead all the way through the match.  However, with my 9mm centerfire gun, I cant find any lead ammo that is accurate at the fifty yard line.    
   As long as you check for leading and clean often enough to prevent lead buildup in the barrel, you should not have a problem.

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:20 am

While it is true that "many" people do shoot jacketed on the long line and lead on the short line, you ARE creating a problem. You're going to have guilded metal fouling in the barrel from your slow fire strings. Then you're going to put lead fouling on top of your metal fouling. It makes cleaning the barrel much more difficult. The only way I know of to completely clean a barrel that has been shot like that is electo-chemical (Foul Out) to get all the fouling out of the barrel. And then you're going to have to "season" the barrel again to get your best accuracy.



I use Fire Clean on every barrel that comes through my shop. That will make it easier to clean and help minimize fouling; both guilded metal, lead and powder. Just my opinion.


 

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by BE Mike on Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:09 am

Back in the day, I shot a lot of matches, using the Nosler 185 gr. JHP for slow fire and 185 gr. LSWCHP for the short line. I used the 1911 for both centerfire and .45 matches. I often shot my first slow fire in in the .45 match with a score in the mid to high nineties. I use old school methods to clean the barrel, i.e. Hoppe's Elite Bore Cleaner. When I first started using Hoppe's Elite, I thoroughly cleaned the barrel as recommended. I don't know if it mattered or not. I'm not disputing kc's assertions, I'm only saying that shooting lead after jacketed and then jacketed (without) cleaning, didn't seem to hurt my scores. I have Kart barrels. YMMV

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by Jerry Keefer on Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:31 am

David Sams has given the same advice as KC..at clinics.  Along with the warning that lead in the barrel increases pressures as the jacketed round passes thru and over the lead.  I used to do it, but I have completely returned to (cast) lead, long and short line.. I started shooting  BE in the mid 1960s and lead dominated the game back then.. Very good scores were fired. A good gun and good lead will shoot under 2 inches at 50.. The cost savings and wear and tear on the shooter/gun,  makes (cast) lead definitely worth considering..  
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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by Jack H on Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:16 am

Is it feasible to shoot your jacketed Noslers/Zero types at 50, and use plated (Berry's?) at 25?

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by Schaumannk on Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:21 am

I think David Sams is obsessed with accuracy.   Not a bad trait in a gunsmith, but for the unsupported shooter out on the line, life is a series of trade offs.   

Very few of us can shoot up to the limits of accuracy in a good bullseye gun.
    If your gun absolutely won't hold the ten ring at the fifty yard line, without jacketed ammo, and you can't afford to shoot jacketed at the short line, I would make that trade off.

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by spursnguns on Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:24 am

Jack H wrote:Is it feasible to shoot your jacketed Noslers/Zero types at 50, and use plated (Berry's?) at 25?

While there are exceptions; most shooters find plated bullets lacking in the accuracy department.

Jim

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by AllAces on Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:42 am

A few years back Berry's sent me a sample of their plated 185 gr HBRN bullets. While the accuracy was good, it did not group as well as 200 gr LSWC or Zero 185 gr LHP at either the short or long line.

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by DavidR on Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:40 pm

I have friends that do it, and they clean the barrel after each 2700, as long as you don't let it build and build over several matches its been no problem for them, however unless you are so good as to be able to take advantage of the minor gains in accuracy of the FMJ-then its a waste of time and money and effort. My lead loaded 185s produce 2'' 50 yd groups, my zero fmj-hps do 1.5'' @ 50yds, unless your a 2600 + shooter you will never see an advantage. If money is not a factor shoot the fmjs the whole match. Another issue I found with mixing, fmjs and lead require not only elevation adjustments but windage as well when going to the short line, making for more needed steps to keep up with during a match.

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by sixftunda on Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:12 am

I use Zero or Nosler 185 SWC on long line and lead on the short.  I run a bore snake through the barrel between them and clean the gun after every 2700 with Shooters Choice Lead Remover.  

I have considered going to one or the other exclusively for the sole reason of making my reloading life a bit easier but everything works perfect for me right now.  DavidR is correct in that you are more likely to have to make a windage adjustment.  

My opinion is that you should not base a shooting decision on your score.  If you can afford it and its proven more accurate, then do it.

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by BE Mike on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:19 pm

Knowing that my gun and ammo is accurate puts any doubt about what caused that bad shot at rest. This game is 90% mental. The rest is in your head. Wink

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:55 pm

IME, a good-fitting lead bullet with any of a number of decent lubes will leave such an insignificant amount of lead in ONLY the throat, that you really don't need to clean and don't see any accuracy drop-off for several hundred rounds.

.45 and .38 Special (yeah. .357 too). I just have not been able to get BE level accuracy out of ANY 9mms yet, but that is with a stock SIG P226.

Last time I cleaned, it was literally 3 patches of bore cleaner, then 30 or so strokes with a bronze brush, then another 4-5 patches to finish up, including the light oil patch. About than 10 minutes, including the slide and other surfaces which have to be done if shooting jacketed anyway.

AFAIC, if you know your zeros, go for it.

I'm also with those who found plated bullets to rarely match the accuracy of a good lead or a good jacketed bullet. Best results were in .38/.357, worst in .40, and .45 were also pretty bad, like 4 inches at 25 yards with the .45.

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Re: Using Lead and FMJ in match

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