Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

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Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by beeser on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:15 am

Based on past comments many of you will probably cringe at my next imminent decision, purchasing another .45 ACP.  I really wanted something that wasn't based on the 1911 but couldn't get past the limited selection and availability (revolvers excluded).  So, in my search for a 1911 I have all but ignored conventional wisdom here and limited my choices to either a Range Officer (actually highly recommended here), a new S&W PC1911 and an earlier manufactured S&W PC1911 (no slide cutouts).  Absent from the list unless anyone wants to make one last attempt to convince me otherwise are the supposedly custom 1911s from the likes of Les Baer, Clark, Ed Brown, etc.  I just couldn't get past the notion (probably naively conceived) that most if not all are highly priced, glittery concoctions that are taking advantage of some perceived promise of accuracy and quality of build.  The Range Officer is probably the best and most logical choice based on my limited experience.  You folks have made a compelling argument in favor of it.  I really like the looks of the older manufacture S&W PC1911 but based on my experience trying to get S&W to fix my Model 41 I'm a little skeptical if repairs are needed.  The newer S&W PC1911 removes some of my concerns for potential repairs because it's a newer model and will be under warranty but I still haven't settled on the looks yet with the slide cutouts.  So, I'll probably buy one of the three listed above very soon, maybe today.  Anyone have any last minute thoughts or suggestions?

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by dronning on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:29 am

Buy the RO easy as 1,2,3,
1 - Swap out the ILS housing for a standard flat or arched mainspring housing & parts use a 19 or 20lb spring,
2 - Install a roll trigger kit from http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2709-roll-trigger-kits and adjust weight to 3.5 lbs
3 - Enjoy!


- Dave
ps  and I own 3 Les Baer's and all have KC's roll trigger kit in them - it's that good
Baby Baer - PII with a Nelson Coversion with Matchdot II
Momma Baer - Wad gun with frame mount Matchdot II
Papa Baer - Hardballer


Last edited by dronning on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by Al on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:33 am

Beeser,
Unless you're in a rush, you may want to consider monitoring the list for a used, Bullseye pistol.   There is nothing wrong with your choice of the Range Officer however.  If I were starting over, it would be my first choice of buying new.  Needing only a trigger job and possibly a new bushing, it's match ready.

The only reason I mention waiting is that you would be getting a 1911 (hopefully built by a BE smith of good reputation) that was put together for our purposes.  I don't mean to infer that Clark, Les Baer, and Brown aren't well made by craftsmen, they are.  But the specialist who can put together an x-ring Bullseye 1911 with a sweet trigger is a class unto himself. 

While I can't speak for anyone but myself, BE shooters tend to be frugal (not cheap-frugal).  We want accuracy and reliability in equal parts.  Cosmetics come in farther back in the list.  I love a finely finished firearm as much as anyone,  but if it doesn't hold at least 2" @ 50 yds with really good ammo, I have no use for it.  I can't remember who wrote it, but the phrase "Only accurate firearms are interesting" holds true for me.

Good luck on your quest.
Al

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by DavidR on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:51 am

Im just going to say this, if you ignore the advise of many seasoned bullseye shooters it obvious that you are not very interested in the goal most of us have of giving ourselves the best possible chance to shoot the highest scores and advance in class rating. Buying guns that will not give you the best advantage will result in a long term in the marksman class. This is not a bad thing if that's all you aspire to do is shoot a little here or there, but at some point imo you will get tired of always being at the bottom of the score card. Take some time to decide what your goal for bullseye is then decide where to invest your money.

Just a FYI, yesterday a good first bullseye gun was listed in the commercial row, (nothing to do with me) It has been reworked by dave salyer, and ready to compete for only 1000.00, complete with dot and match grips, this is a great deal and would serve you well.
http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2909-wts-kimber-stainless-gold-match-ii
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by rvlvrlvr on Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:18 pm

DavidR wrote:Just a FYI, yesterday a good first bullseye gun was listed in the commercial row, (nothing to do with me) It has been reworked by dave salyer, and ready to compete for only 1000.00, complete with dot and match grips, this is a great deal and would serve you well.
http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2909-wts-kimber-stainless-gold-match-ii

beeser - if you want a dedicated Bullseye gun, this is an excellent way to go. I'm probably a little biased, but Dave Salyer (who worked on the gun that ultimately became mine) makes good stuff and competes himself in Bullseye matches.
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by Colt711 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:08 pm

Beeser,
The 2 posts above contain the honest opinion of shooters who have gained their knowledge thru experience, hard work, AND $$$.

If you get a Sringfield likely you will likely soon be asking for names & no.'s of these BE 'smiths.

Ron Habegger

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by beeser on Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:38 pm

I hope everyone realizes that I appreciate all of the comments, recommendations, advice, etc. given to me on this forum.  I really do.  But you have to understand that the decision is ultimately mine and is made based on my understanding and expectations at that time, which may or may not change.  I'm also not without my biases that have no basis in fact.  I raised the question earlier about what reloading press to buy and many offered their thoughts on the subject.  I ultimately purchased a Dillon XL 650, which some of you favored.  Some did not.  I'm content with my decision but already some of the arguments in favor of the single stage press are being realized.  I'll post those thoughts in a separate thread.  As for the .45 ACP purchase, I have no intention of attaining the type of shooting classification that many here have earned.  My goal is more simply to enjoy the effort to be the best that I'm capable of achieving and having fun in the process.  I'm happy to give away a couple of Xs in exchange for enjoying the process.  There are guns that don't appeal to my sense of aesthetics or value and it doesn't matter much whether they are accurate shooters or not.  I don't care to own them and I don't care to shoot them.  The Kimber is an example of one without any offense to anyone that have and enjoy them.  I appreciate that they are mentioned and advocated but I don't want one (for now).  I hope my comments didn't offend anyone but I thought my ramblings my help to explain things.

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by mspingeld on Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:53 pm

Be warned, many feel that way in the beginning but...this sport is addicting. Welcome! I'm new too but loving every minute.

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by dronning on Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:35 pm

Get ready, it doesn't matter what you do things will change.

About 18 months ago I was where you are but I took a little different approach - I bought an Air Pistol first.  My original plan was to shoot the AP for a while then use my Ruger 22/45 and Gold Cup for an actual match.  After some time with the AP I went to a bullseye clinic I kept all the long line shots on the paper and shot a 98 in rapid fire with the Ruger.  I was hooked.  I didn't want to wait to have a gun built or take a chance on one coming up for sale.  Champions choice had some Les Baers in stock.  1st it was a wad gun, then the hardballer.  Next I bought a Marvel for my Colt.  A few months later I bought a Les Baer Premier II as a carry piece because I like the Baer's so much.  Then I upgraded the Marvel to a Nelson and decided to put it on the Premier II.  I added an LP50 air pistol so I could practice sustained fire.  About 2 months ago I put in short triggers in all 3 guns and followed up with KC roll trigger kits in all 3.  Just last week I put an arched mainspring housing on the 22 & wad guns because it fit's my hand better.  My scores continue to improve and are becoming consistent (99% due to shot process) plus now everything feels right.

That's kind of how things go.

- Dave
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:44 pm

Beeser,
Don't worry.  Many of us in this sport want things that are "just so" or "a certain brand" regardless if those preferences are based in logic or reason or not.

Some people think that the toilet paper should go over-the-top.  Other people think the TP should go down-the-back.  There are a couple that don't care--but the people who do care think they are SOOOO right.

It's not going to stop us from trying to convince you that our clicky preferences are the "right" ones.
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by beeser on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:07 pm

I like the toilet paper analogy.  Definitely the way to penetrate my thick skull.  And please don't stop trying to convince me of the "right" way regardless of my occasional whining.  I really enjoy the argument.

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by C.Perkins on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:59 pm

Beeser;

An open invitation to contact me and discuss Bullseye shooting and equipment.
PM me your number or PM me and I will give you my number.
does not matter to me.
Maybe I can answer some of your questions.

Clarence
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by Rich/WIS on Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:17 am

I have a RO and really like it, but if you are serious about competing I suggest you go with a purpose built target gun as suggested by others.  The last RO I saw in a LGS was over $800, spend a bit more now and save money in the long run.

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:49 am

beeser, I'll second what Clarence said. If you'd like to call and talk pick up the phone or you can send me an email as well. I will FULLY admit right now I have some very definite preferences since I build them. But I can be very objective and talk about other options. Hope this helps!
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by inthebeech on Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:53 am

"...appeal to my sense of aesthetics..."

Stop trying guys.  He's not ready.
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by beeser on Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:10 am

You're right inthebeech, I'm not ready to go ugly yet on some of the 1911s mentioned.

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by DavidR on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:29 am

If picking a gun is based on looks then let me give my thoughts when I see a  sw 1911 or a ruger 1911 they look just like cheap knockoffs, kind of like when you see those fake Rolex's at a flea market.  They are high production guns built with the cheapest parts they can produce and no personal workmanship involved and lucky if they hold a 3'' group at 25yards not to mention they wont feed anything but factory full metal jacket ammo. The really cheap made in the Philippine's rock island armory 1911 looks better. Now a RO that's a nice gun, feeds lead swc target loads and everything else right out of the box plus it will hold the 10 ring at 50 yards and everything it needs and at a great price.


Last edited by DavidR on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by javaduke on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:34 am

Folks, sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a question about RO. I recently picked up one and planning to rebuild it into the CMP-legal hardball gun. I will replace the bushing, safeties, hammer and sear, but not sure if I should keep the original barrel, or get a Kart. Can anyone comment on the original Springfield barrel quality? Is it good enough for a decent hardball gun? Or should I get a Kart, or Bar-Sto, or anything else?

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by DavidR on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:38 am

All you need to do is change the hammer, thumb safety and grip safety, the barrel is national match specs, no need to change the sear, bushing is a maybe, mine was a decent fit so I left it. Mine will shoot one hole at 25yds so I know its more than good enough at 50.
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by javaduke on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:41 am

DavidR wrote:All you need to do is change the hammer, thumb safety and grip safety, the barrel is national match specs, no need to change the sear, bushing is a maybe, mine was a decent fit so I left it.

I checked the bushing, fit to slide is very loose, can be easily turned using fingers only. Bushing to barrel fit is also somewhat loose, there's a bit of horizontal play, so I guess I'd better fit a new bushing. I got a Clark oversized one.

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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by BE Mike on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:46 am

javaduke wrote:Folks, sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a question about RO. I recently picked up one and planning to rebuild it into the CMP-legal hardball gun. I will replace the bushing, safeties, hammer and sear, but not sure if I should keep the original barrel, or get a Kart. Can anyone comment on the original Springfield barrel quality? Is it good enough for a decent hardball gun? Or should I get a Kart, or Bar-Sto, or anything else?
Only testing can determine whether or not the factory barrel will shoot good groups at 50 yards. As for the Kart vs. Bar-Sto for hardball, both will get the job done, but many consider the Bar-Sto to have a slight edge over the Kart. All that being said, a good trigger job and finding a hardball load that will shoot well at 50 yards would trump barrel selection for me. Keep in mind that when testing barrels, you may find that although a pistol might turn in exceptional groups with wadcutter ammo at the long line, it may disappoint you with hardball ammo.
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by LenV on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:47 am

There is one more thing you have to do to make it an EIC pistol. The extended slide stop/release has to be changed out to a non-extended.
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by DavidR on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:52 am

OldMaster64 wrote:There is one more thing you have to do to make it an EIC pistol. The extended slide stop/release has to be changed out to a non-extended.

Ive never seen a RO with a extended slide stop. What it has is legal and has been on every one I have ordered. 5 total
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by LenV on Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:00 am

Mine came with an extended slide stop and an extended thumb safety. Not having any others to compare it with I thought they all came that way. I will look for a picture here.
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

Post by LenV on Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:09 am

this is how I got it.
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Re: Sequel to I want a new .45 ACP

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