CMP Service Pistol Question

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CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by DeweyHales on 8/8/2014, 9:07 am

Is a non-Dinstinguished shooter with three prior matches in a year allowed to compete for placement medals in a fourth match?  I know they aren't able to shoot for legs or count in the eligible shooter count.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by Rob Kovach on 8/8/2014, 9:48 am

I'm pretty sure the answer is no unless one of those 3 matches was Camp Perry.  I hope somebody else can chime in.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by DavidR on 8/8/2014, 11:07 am

You are not even allowed to compete in more than three unless the forth is at perry.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by DeweyHales on 8/8/2014, 3:05 pm

The CMP has the records of when you shoot. Distinguished shooters can shoot all the matches they want. 

The rule says the number of matches in which a Non-Distinguished civilian may compete for EIC points is limited. It doesn't specify for placement medals. I've written the CMP for clarification.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by robert84010 on 8/8/2014, 5:52 pm

Unless they have changed the rule, yes you can. What you cannot do it decide to not shoot for points at one match and then later shoot a match for points. Basically the first three matches before Perry count, then Perry would be your fourth for points, then you can shoot other matches for no points.

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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by farmboy on 8/8/2014, 9:35 pm

robert84010 wrote:Unless they have changed the rule, yes you can. What you cannot do it decide to not shoot for points at one match and then later shoot a match for points. Basically the first three matches before Perry count, then Perry would be your fourth for points, then you can shoot other matches for no points.
Do you count for numbers needed for others to earn points in the matches mentioned above that you can shoot for no points?


Last edited by farmboy on 8/8/2014, 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : left out a word)
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by DeweyHales on 8/8/2014, 9:51 pm

farmboy wrote:
Do you count for numbers needed for others to earn points in the matches mentioned above that you can shoot for no points?
No.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by dronning on 8/8/2014, 9:54 pm

No you do not count.  I shot an EIC match after I had maxed out and told the match director I had maxed out but wanted to shoot.  They didn't have enough entries and thought it was ok to use me in the count - the match was rejected by CMP and no points were awarded. 

Dave
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by john bickar on 8/9/2014, 12:07 am

Yeah, I "lost" 6 rifle points that way. Yarbles.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by GrumpyOldMan on 8/9/2014, 1:33 am

My best leg match performance and placement got me a medal but no points. Not enough shooters. Nice bronze thing on a ribbon.

So do medals go to only the top 3 non-distinguished shooters?

I've forgotten how distinguished shooters in the scoring affect the allocation of points...been way too long since I shot one.

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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by Rob Kovach on 8/9/2014, 8:05 am

No. Medals go to top 3 shooters--distinguished or not.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by dronning on 8/9/2014, 10:04 am

Rob Kovach wrote:No. Medals go to top 3 shooters--distinguished or not.



Doesn't it also depend on how many total competitors are there?
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by DeweyHales on 8/28/2014, 4:55 pm

I got my official answer:


Non-Distinguished competitors are only able to fire in three club matches plus National Matches.  They are not able to fire in a match for just place medals or practice.
 
If you have any questions please feel free to email me.
 
Thank you,
Christina
 
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by dronning on 8/28/2014, 6:00 pm

DeweyHales wrote:I got my official answer:


Non-Distinguished competitors are only able to fire in three club matches plus National Matches.  They are not able to fire in a match for just place medals or practice.
 
If you have any questions please feel free to email me.
 
Thank you,
Christina
 
Christina Roguski
Competition Associate


That clears things up.  a Couple of match directors I know have allowed people to shoot with no CMP entry fee and no score card turned in.  Sounds like that is against the rules.

- Dave
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by DeweyHales on 8/28/2014, 10:03 pm

I can understand a person not being eligible to compete for leg points. But, a shooter with 3 prior matches is still eligible it would seem if they aren't a felon. 


Rule 9 makes it clear that fourth or more scores aren't counted toward leg scores. It says that the shooter may not compete for leg points. It says nothing about placement medals. 


If the CMP response is correct, the rules should be made very specific about it. Taken quite literally, I don't see the rule that makes me ineligible for a placement medal if I could shoot well enough. 

It is common for rifle matches to run a state championship and a leg match concurrently. Shooting in a concurrent match would not be considered cheating. It seems odd to encourage involvement while making shooters that want to shoot ineligible. 

4.0 Eligibility Requirements and Categories
4.1 General Eligibility
All CMP-sponsored or CMP-sanctioned matches are open to any individual or team that complies with these eligibility requirements. U. S. citizenship is not required to participate. Individual membership in the CMP or a sponsoring organization is not required to participate. No person who has been convicted of a Federal or State felony or any violation of Section 922 of Title 18, U. S. Code, is eligible to participate in any activity sponsored or sanctioned by the CMP. 


9.2.2 EIC Match Eligibility for Non-Distinguished Civilians
The number of EIC matches in which Non-Distinguished Civilians may compete for EIC points is limited. In any calendar year, Non-Distinguished Civilians, in either rifle or pistol, may compete in:

  • One National Trophy Individual Match.
  • A maximum of three CMP-sanctioned EIC matches. The scores of any competitor who fires in more than three EIC matches in one calendar year will not be counted in determining EIC credit points.

     

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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by LenV on 8/28/2014, 11:19 pm

That second bullet is pretty clear. "The scores of any competitor who fires in more than three EIC matches in on calendar year will not be counted in determining EIC credit points". That single sentence lets you know that .

  A. They expect it to happen and it just doesn't count.

  B. They expect it to happen multiple times or they would have said score not "scores"

  C. It does not state that a person can't shoot in the match for medals. Just can't get points.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol Question

Post by Jack H on 8/29/2014, 1:47 am

I think rule 4.11 might allow match directors to let non distinguished with 3 EIC already shoot for local awards only.
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