Shorter Trigger?

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Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:38 am

What's involved in making the trigger shorter on a Range Officer?

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by rvlvrlvr on Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:09 pm

as in getting a trigger with a shorter shoe, or making some part of the trigger's travel shorter?

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:44 pm

rvlvrlvr wrote:as in getting a trigger with a shorter shoe, or making some part of the trigger's travel shorter?
Shorter shoe

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:48 pm

buy  the trigger
fit the trigger shoe if required
adjust the trigger bow if required
SOME just fall in
some  need some filing

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:51 pm

I know it's not a 1911 but my S&W 52 allows me to place the distal part of my index finger perpendicular to the trigger, which feels very comfortable and probably makes it easier to pull the trigger straight back.  The distance from the face of the trigger to the nearest part of the grip safety on my 1911 is approx. 2 3/4".  Similarly, the distance on my 52 is 2 1/2".  Is it possible to get a 1911 trigger assembly 1/4" shorter or shorten the distance mentioned above in another way?

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:03 pm

looking in my Brownells 1911 catalog I see a couple of short/solid replacement triggers.  You could probably start with one of those & take a grinder to them if needed.  26 dollar parts give or take

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:56 pm

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:looking in my Brownells 1911 catalog I see a couple of short/solid replacement triggers.  You could probably start with one of those & take a grinder to them if needed.  26 dollar parts give or take
Thanks for the heads up.  I'll have to get one of those catalogs based on the number of times you guys refer to it.  I wonder, is there such a thing as a lower profile grip safety?  And for possibly a dumb question, is the grip safety required?  The reason I ask is the 52 doesn't have one and that probably makes up for most if not all of the 1/4" difference.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:08 pm

I don't know if this is a good trigger or even the correct type but the difference between the long and short is 1/4".  I don't know the length used on a Range Officer but if it's a long then the one below might be a solution.

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/trigger-parts/triggers/greider-precision-1911-auto-v-series-match-trigger-prod20228.aspx

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by dronning on Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:12 pm

beeser wrote:I don't know if this is a good trigger or even the correct type but the difference between the long and short is 1/4".  I don't know the length used on a Range Officer but if it's a long then the one below might be a solution.

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/trigger-parts/triggers/greider-precision-1911-auto-v-series-match-trigger-prod20228.aspx


I just put 3 of the short ones (377-000-004WB) in my .22(Nelson/Marvel), Wad Gun & Ball gun.  I did have to file the top and bottom of the trigger to get it to operate smoothly.  Very easy to do. 

Sorry, I don't know which trigger length comes standard in the RO.

- Dave

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by dstates on Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:12 pm

Dave,

I was looking at the same short trigger for my pistol.  Any chance you could give us a dimension to compare? Maybe narrowest length of the shoe, or amount of shoe exposed?

Thanks,
Doug

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by dstates on Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:19 pm

Nevermind, Dave.  I looked a little closer and found the specs on Brownells site. 

Doug

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:58 am

Just got off the phone with SA and they will shorten the trigger a 1/4" for $80 including shipping.  Good way to go?

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:25 am

All depends on your basic skills.
You can get the part for less than half the price, modify it in your own cave & never have your prize leave your hands.
If you have no tools (a fine single cut file) or are nervous...send your pride & joy to SA with appropriate money.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by Rob Kovach on Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:38 pm

With your engineering background, I'm sure you can do it yourself.  I'm a cheapskate--I would do it myself.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:28 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:With your engineering background, I'm sure you can do it yourself.  I'm a cheapskate--I would do it myself.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Rob but I'm quickly transitioning to vacation mode.  It's crunch time and I'm shooting every day this week and still preparing for the launch.  The convenience of having one less thing to do is too tempting.  It would be nice to have it done by the time I get back next month.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by CR10X on Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:46 pm

Beeser:

While I understand the desire, I will make an observation here.  A vast majority of people will find the 1911 pattern with the current standard trigger works just fine.  

I do not know where you are at on the learning curve for bullseye shooting, but I will pass along some advise about getting a grip (pun intended) on the 1911.  If you are Master of above, then you already have your own conclusions.  If not, then the suggestion is to experiment, change and train. This is basically from Zin's description, so others can join in if I do not describe this perfectly. 

Using an unloaded gun and with the safety on, place your finger on the trigger where you want it to be.  For most shooters this will be between fingertip pad and the crease of the first joint.  Don't use the fleshy part of the fingertip, the crease should be on the right edge of the trigger (if right handed).  Then complete the grip, wrapping the rest of the hand and fingers around the grip and front strap.  The majoring of the trigger finger should not be on or pressing against the gun.  This in now your grip.  Most of the trigger finger movement will come from the second joint, but resist curling the trigger to any noticeable extent.  Point the gun in a safe direction (again it is unloaded and the safety is on). Feel the trigger press (it will not move much due to the safety) and see which way the gun moves.  Whichever way the gun tries to move will shows you how you are deviating from "pressing the trigger straight back".

Not everyone is the same, but you will be surprised how many people the 1911 trigger will fit.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by Jack H on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:15 pm

Not everyone is the same.  I follow the grip method stated here about halfway down. 
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter1.htm
This method seems to describe first seating the backstrap firmly into the palm of the hand resulting in something close to Zins grip description.  But the length of your hand and fingers has a lot to do with your trigger length of pull.  I think Zins has said that he has a better feel of the trigger placing it at the crease of the joint.  That is fine and good if your hand is the size that allows that and still be able to press straight back.   But I do not think that particular finger placement on that crease is the most important thing for the beginner shooter right now.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:12 pm

Excellent suggestions and ideas!  I especially like the one placing the gun on safety and attempting to pull the trigger.  That would definitely accentuate a pull to one side or the other.  I did the same thing but without the safety set in an attempt to find out if my pull was straight back.  It became obvious at some point through a crude discovery process that my shots were being pushed to the left.  I'm convinced it was because the pad of my index finger was on the right edge of the trigger and the entire distal part of my finger was at an angle to the trigger face.  In order to get that part of the finger to be parallel to the trigger face I had to rotate my hand around the grip counterclockwise viewed from above.  That placed the V between my thumb and index finger a little to the right of the beavertail.  I found this somewhat uncomfortable but I was able to pull the trigger straight back and my accuracy improved dramatically.  After giving it more thought and doing some checking I came to the conclusion that the length of pull or distance between the trigger face and the back strap was about 1'4" too long.  My reasoning is as follows.

My hands are considered large with respect to glove sizing.  This is based primarily on the circumference around the largest part of the four fingers.  However, based on finger length my hand can also be considered between medium and small.  I think the later is more relevant to length of trigger pull.  According to SA the size trigger used on the Range Officer is their largest with a length of pull of 2 3/4".  Their smallest trigger is 1/'4" less.  The length of pull of my S&W 52 and 39 are 2 1/2" and both feel very comfortable and allow me to place the distal part of my finger parallel to the trigger face.  Right or wrong that's how I came to the conclusion to shorten the trigger.  Any flaws in my thinking?

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:26 pm

Works for me.  It's so easy to change a trigger that I can't see a downside to trying the shorter trigger.  If you aren't happy with it, you can change it back in about 5 minutes.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by Jack H on Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:06 pm

Bees
My hand like yours is wide and short.  I'd say extra wide and medium short.  Thick too.

Makes grip sizing a challenge.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by Jerry Keefer on Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:09 pm

I do a lot of trigger length work.. The super high masters are very fussy about trigger feel and distance.  I have found after market trigger shoes less than adequate..
I machine the existing trigger shoe completely flat..to the shortest possible working distance. Now, the flat surface  is a constant, and an assortment of trigger shoes with a matching flat can be fabricated from that zero dimension. The shoe groove is fit to within a thousandth or two and is essentially very snug, self supporting fit to the trigger. A countersunk set screw on each side secures the shoe rock solid.  Some shooters change shoes during the match, as their hands/fingers swell or shrink. I sorry I don't have more pictures, but I think you can get the idea. One small handed shooter uses the trigger existing  Greider shoe machined off flat. The frame is relieved/scalloped to allow more reach for short fingers and the left side grip panel has been replaced by a .050 thick aluminum plate and skateboard tape.The bottom pic was taken before the aluminum panel.

Jerry




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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:23 am

Jerry Keefer's post sounds so Hoganesque with respect to the finger changing, feeling fat a times.  How much does this trigger modification cost?

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:37 am

Excelent workmanship deserves an excelent price, in the Brownells catalog there is a trigger with interchangeable face inserts.  That may be a starting point before you drop the coin on the realy nice setup.  But cool stuff like Mr. Keefer's is nice to have.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

Post by beeser on Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:40 pm

I played around with the grip again this morning, trying the 52 and 39, etc. for length of pull comparison and decided to shorten the trigger on the Range Officer.  Because of time constraints, inexperience and lack of another option I intend to send it to SA's Custom Shop to have the work done unless convinced otherwise.  Should I have them do any other work to the gun while it's there, e.g. trigger job?  The gun has performed flawlessly since it was purchased new accepting every hand load good or otherwise fed into it.  So, I don't think any repairs are necessary.  I'm just looking to improve on the platform.

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Re: Shorter Trigger?

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