I'm frustrated!

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I'm frustrated!

Post by beeser on Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:42 pm

Besides getting this frustration off my chest there is a simple question at the end.  I just returned from my practice session this morning with the high hopes that the trigger adjustments performed by SA during my month long hiatus would help (not necessarily solve) a nagging problem that has been with me ever since I started shooting, pushing shots to the left.  I've had experienced shooters confirm for me that it's not the gun so it must be me.  I thought having the trigger shortened to allow for a better finger position would help but apparently it has not.  So, my simple question is this; What is causing me to consistently push shots to the left?  I'm right handed for a point of reference.  The only advantage to this affliction is that I could save a ton of money on targets by cutting them in half and only use one side at a time.  The other side doesn't get used anyway.

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by TexasShooter on Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:51 pm

If you are consistently hitting left, why not just adjust the sights to put those shots in middle? Sound's like too simple a solution so maybe some of the more experienced folks will offer better answers...

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by beeser on Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:00 pm

TexasShooter wrote:If you are consistently hitting left, why not just adjust the sights to put those shots in middle? Sound's like too simple a solution so maybe some of the more experienced folks will offer better answers...
I'm consistently pushing shots to the left but not in consistent groups if that makes any sense.  Besides, it bothers me that I'm the one that's pushing the shots, not the gun, and I don't know what else to do to correct it.

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by jmdavis on Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:02 pm

I think my mentor would suggest dryfiring at a blank wall and or shooting a blank target. Take the bullseye out of the equation for a while

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by Jack H on Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:22 pm

Try canting the gun a little left.  CCW or inward for righty.  You might be not knowingly forcing gun to right and subconsciously relaxing at the break letting the gun go left. 

Try a pretend dryfire pressing in the trigger and see the sight when you come off pressuring the trigger.  Just like pressuring the trigger, the sight should be stable when you release pressure.
Are you on the trigger with a finger angle that is like 90 degrees from the line of a straight pull?


Last edited by Jack H on Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by dronning on Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:40 pm

I spent a lot of time on the left sider of the chart.  I went from Jerking to anticipation and back until I started dry firing and doing ball and dummy drills.

For me the hardest one to diagnose was when I was squeezing with my fingertips.  My groups would start just slightly right of the X ring and end up with 2-3 shots in the 9 or 8ring around the 8 o'clock position.


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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by beeser on Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:50 pm

Jack H wrote:Try canting the gun a little left.  CCW or inward for righty.  You might be not knowingly forcing gun to right and subconsciously relaxing at the break letting the gun go left.
This prompted me to remember that once in a while I find myself looking for the front sight after raising the gun from a downward resting position and having to move the gun (can't remember if left or right) to align the sights.  Maybe as you say I'm returning the gun to it's natural hold position just before the break.  Thanks!  This definitely gives me something to look into.  Am I correct to assume that my hold on the gun should be such that if it is raised (with my eyes closed for instance) the sights will automatically be close to alignment?  In other words, close enough that a large correction isn't necessary?

Yes and many more times yes on more dry fire time.

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by beeser on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:02 pm

dronning wrote:I spent a lot of time on the left sider of the chart.  I went from Jerking to anticipation and back until I started dry firing and doing ball and dummy drills.

For me the hardest one to diagnose was when I was squeezing with my fingertips.  My groups would start just slightly right of the X ring and end up with 2-3 shots in the 9 or 8ring around the 8 o'clock position.


Another thanks on the squeezing finger tips possibility.  I never considered that before.  That might be a hard one to identify though unlike the old tie a string to a fish hook connected to your crotch on one end with the other end to your head to keep a golfer's head still.  Instant feedback.

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by BE Mike on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:29 pm

IMHO, you need to reboot your thinking. Focus on the proper fundamental of trigger control. That is operating the trigger finger independently and pressing it straight to the rear without disturbing your sight alignment. This is a difficult process and requires training, much of it without the distraction of ammunition. I am not a fan of the wheel of misfortune. I prefer to keep a positive mental outlook.

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by SteveT on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:43 pm

Dry fire until you find a grip, finger position and trigger pull that does not cause the dot to jump (it's easier to see with a dot, but it can be done with open sights also) then make sure your live fire trigger pull is the same as your dry fire pull.

For me the 1911 is VERY sensitive. I have many 22's that are easy to shoot well, but with a 1911 everything has to be just about perfect. The only way I have found that works for me is completely wrong according to anything I have read. 

  • I have long fingers, but use a fairly short trigger.
  • My trigger finger wraps all the way around the trigger and touches the frame behind the trigger.
  • The bottom of my finger rubs along the trigger guard.
  • I pull the trigger by curling the first phalanx, it definitely does not feel like "straight to the rear".
  • My mental attitude and approach to triggering the shot is more important than anything else. I need just the right aggressiveness without being too aggressive.

Figure out what works for you by dry firing. Be observant and notice what helps and what doesn't.

BTW - A right handed shooter throwing shots left or left and down is usually some form of jerking the trigger. If it's more common in Slow Fire you are probably trying to be too perfect and snatching the trigger when it's near the center. If it's more common in Rapid Fire you are probably getting in a hurry and slamming the trigger.

Don't put too much stock in the wheel of misfortune. It might give some ideas of where to look, but in my experience it is wrong more often than it is right. And +1 to BE Mike to focus on what works rather than what you are doing is wrong. If you identify something wrong in your process, immediately convert it into what you do that is correct.

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by CR10X on Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:01 pm

Have someone do a "dummy" drill with you at the range and watch you live fire with the dummy.  If you are not seeing it happen, then you will not believe it and cannot fix it. At least they will be there see the gun jerk or move or the eyes blink.   

You can get them to watch your dryfire as well if dummy drill is not possible. But that is usually masked by the fact you are actually focusing on the proper things when dryfiring.  

PS.  Be sure to double plug and wear the best shooting glasses you can get.  

PPS.  Keep your eyes open and just move the trigger finger, not anything else.  So grip the gun like you mean it and then you'll have something to pull the trigger against.  

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by Dave C. on Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:33 pm

What are you doing when you hit the center?

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by BE Mike on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:47 am

Dave C. wrote:What are you doing when you hit the center?

Dave C.
Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by 285wannab on Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:43 am

Just throwing my thoughts into the mix.  If you are shooting to the left and anyone else is centered with your gun you might be torquing the trigger left with your trigger finger.  If my line of thinking is correct I would guess you are throwing your shoots farther to the left than before you changed triggers and if you didn't change your position on the trigger.  If your shots are father out then I'm thinking you need a longer trigger or move your trigger finger position.
Like Jack H mentioned you need that 90 deg when the sear is breaking and hitting your stop.

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Re: I'm frustrated!

Post by DavidR on Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:06 am

Why are you so sure its you, like said before if you constantly hit left then adjust the sights to move the shots right. You can not set your sights, using both hands or off a rest. you can only get a true zero out of your hand shooting in the same manor as you do when in a match. This is something you need to learn, cause a zero at one range may be different at another one.

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Re: I'm frustrated!

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