Seating bullets on the shoulder?

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Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by kwixdraw on Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

Is seating bullets on the shoulder literally having a seating die that pushes on the shoulder? I have kept track of my seating depth at the shoulder and OAL but seating on the shoulder is a way to also get more concentric loaded ammo I could see that as a good thing. Anyone have preferred seating dies or is this strictly a custom seater stem type venture.  I notice that the Dillon SWC side of the seater contacts somewhere about midway down the cone of a H&G 68 or similar bullet. Leaves a pretty good mark too.

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by lablover on Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:46 pm

guncheese wrote:dont bother with the powder coat guns
all of mine (yes the ones in the pic) were done by twirling them around in a cool whip container
plenty of info on the shake and bake method on the web
easy,super cheap,clean and the bottom of the bullet gets coated as well (lots of indoor rages that dont like lead  allow powder coat)

I assume you are sizing these after you Powder Coat them.  I figured if you are loosing any accuracy in these you would not be using them.  I'd really like to start casting my own but for now I guess I could clean the lube off of store bought but that sort of defeats the purpose I guess if they are already lubed...LOL

I've done a few here and they came out pretty good.  A few tiny bare spots but I'm sure thats my process.  Coolwhip container, black airsoft BB's and HF powder coat (red)

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by Wobbley on Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:25 pm

If you powder coat, do you size them?  Before or after?

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:26 pm

Wobbley wrote:If you powder coat, do you size them?  Before or after?

I thought the lady at Camp Perry said that they were sized after coating
I am of two minds on this process...how can you be sure of even application and therefore weight???
Jacket thickness can be controlled & plating is only about 1/3 the thickness of a jacket.
I don't see how the powder coating can be as consistent, especially at home.
And do I want to bake a pizza next to my batch of bullets??

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by kwixdraw on Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:55 pm

Buy a cheap countertop toaster oven just for your powder coat.

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by Dr.Don on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:10 pm

I'd like to see someone Ransom Rest a known good cast bullet in a known good gun at 50 yards, then re-run the same test using the same lot of bullets but powder coated.  I have a feeling this stuff is not going to hold the same level of accuracy.  Then again, a lot of stuff works "good enough" at the short line.............

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by BE Mike on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:48 am

Ok, since this has taken a turn, I would still be interested to see a 10 shot machine rest group at 50 yards from and accurized bullseye 1911 using these powder coated bullets. Anybody done any testing yet?

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by james r chapman on Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:01 am

Like a guy at the club showing off fantastic target groups with his ammo. Turned out he was ransom resting INDOORS at 50'

Lol

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by lablover on Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:23 am

Wish I had a Ransom Rest...I'd give it a try...hmmmmmmm An excuse to buy one....

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by Dr.Don on Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:05 am

Before you invest in a Ransom Rest, make sure your test site has a block of concrete to anchor it to.  They have to be tied down really securely to get worthwhile results.  They aren't cheap, and it would be a shame to own one and have nowhere to use it.

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by exnavyguy on Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:23 pm

kwixdraw wrote:Is seating bullets on the shoulder literally having a seating die that pushes on the shoulder? I have kept track of my seating depth at the shoulder and OAL but seating on the shoulder is a way to also get more concentric loaded ammo I could see that as a good thing. Anyone have preferred seating dies or is this strictly a custom seater stem type venture.  I notice that the Dillon SWC side of the seater contacts somewhere about midway down the cone of a H&G 68 or similar bullet. Leaves a pretty good mark too.
The Redding competition seating die pushes on the shoulder of all the SWC styles I have.
Not a cheap die, but you don't have to have it customized. Plus you'll love the micrometer settings.

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by Fire Escape on Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:48 pm

exnavyguy wrote:
kwixdraw wrote:Is seating bullets on the shoulder literally having a seating die that pushes on the shoulder? I have kept track of my seating depth at the shoulder and OAL but seating on the shoulder is a way to also get more concentric loaded ammo I could see that as a good thing. Anyone have preferred seating dies or is this strictly a custom seater stem type venture.  I notice that the Dillon SWC side of the seater contacts somewhere about midway down the cone of a H&G 68 or similar bullet. Leaves a pretty good mark too.
The Redding competition seating die pushes on the shoulder of all the SWC styles I have.
Not a cheap die, but you don't have to have it customized. Plus you'll love the micrometer settings.


Are the micrometer settings better marked than in the old days?
My set for .308 has no reference designations on the sizing die, sure it is 50/1000s per revolution and the revolutions are marked but they are not numbered which makes it tough to record notes, i.e. 'two little lines plus 34'. My seating die has reference numbers... starting at two, going 'up' (or is it down?) to '0' then going to 1 again. If you are shorter than zero the micrometer barrel reads 'normal' but when you go longer than zero it reads backwards so the notes would read +0.060" which means ;one little line above 0 and then turn the barrel to 40 (to get the 10/1000s beyond 50). Lots of fun when you have rifle throats that like some above and some below their arbitrary choice of "0". Still better than having no markings. The 'stick on' tape vernier reference on my Hornady isn't really classy but that one at least just goes up from zero.
I hope that they have gotten better, thinking about a set for another caliber but not sure I could keep them straight in my mind If they still put zero near the middle of the range.

Bruce

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by Jack H on Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:24 pm

I have always used a dummy round standard seated for the requirements of any certain firearm.  Then run the seat stem down to touch.  Used this method with my Vickermans back in my benchrest days.  Now with pistol 45 I find this method and "close is good enough" works just fine. 

I do use the Dillon seater opened up for shoulder seating SWC 45.  And I have not adjusted on it for ages.  I opened up my Dillon seater plugs with a board, drill press, channel locks, and dremmel.  Smile

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by exnavyguy on Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:58 am

If you are shorter than zero the micrometer barrel reads 'normal' but when you go longer than zero it reads backwards so the notes would read +0.060" which means ;one little line above 0 and then turn the barrel to 40 (to get the 10/1000s beyond 50). 

My older .357 comp. seater reads that way, I have to write something like +.065 or -.072. 
My newer .45 acp seater starts with 0 at the bottom and all the readings are above 0 and incremented in thousandths of an inch. Simple and clear.
Maybe Redding got enough complaints about having 0 in the middle of the scale.

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by Wobbley on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:10 am

lablover wrote:Wish I had a Ransom Rest...I'd give it a try...hmmmmmmm An excuse to buy one....
If you're getting the RR to test ammo a better approach might be to get a Contender  barrel in 45 ACP from say Bulberry.  Mount a decent 6 power scope or higher and shoot that at 50 yards.  Bad ammo is usually bad bullets.  Sometimes bad reloading procedures but far more often bad cast bullets.   This is why only certain makers get recommended here.

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by guncheese on Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:41 pm

Wobbley wrote: Bad ammo is usually bad bullets.  Sometimes bad reloading procedures but far more often bad cast bullets.   This is why only certain makers get recommended here.

as lovely as my coated bullets look
if i was trying to win on the 50
i would be using swaged or a xtp


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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by exnavyguy on Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:13 am

guncheese wrote:
Wobbley wrote: Bad ammo is usually bad bullets.  Sometimes bad reloading procedures but far more often bad cast bullets.   This is why only certain makers get recommended here.

as lovely as my coated bullets look
if i was trying to win on the 50
i would be using swaged or a xtp

Is the problem voids in the cast cores or an issue with the coating?
If you had to pick cast bullets for the 50 yard line, would sorting them by weight help?

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

Post by guncheese on Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:30 am

voids and or not filled on a edge or something of that sort
for giggles ive sorted by weight before
and i must say you get plenty of categories!
this is all excluding any coating
unless i could prove that they worked fine for the long line
like i said swaged or xtp as i weighed enough cast bullets to know how wide they vary

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Re: Seating bullets on the shoulder?

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