9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

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9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by Motorcycle_dan on Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:01 am

Like I needed another mind tormenting project.  Considerable wheeling and dealing I ended up with a MCP Beretta 92FS.  My thought was to loan it to Ohio's super junior Glenn Zimmerman for next year's NTT. 

I wanted to be able to let him know what the magic go to load was for the gun.  Nothing I've tried works as good as Atlanta Arms AMU load.  It isn't terribly expensive but still I think I could load them myself. 

My initial thought was the bullets were becoming unstable as they were falling back through the pressure wave as they transitioned to sub sonic speed.  My grand (not) plan was to build a 125gr FMJ and push it just under the speed of sound.  It would stay sub-sonic the whole trip.  3.9gr of Hodgdon TiteGroup pushed the 125 bullet at the desired speed 1090.  Yeah, I thought.  Made it to an indoor range (50ft) to try these and see that it would function the gun.  It functioned flawlessly, However....

Even at 50ft bullets way off call and the tell tale skewed bullet holes.  So apparently they need to go above the speed of sound.  I did load some of the same 125gr FMJ with 4.2 gr of HTG.  They are running right above 1200fps.  Groups at 50 yd not very good 8~10" group.  But I'm not sure the ransom rest was up to snuff. 

An aside note, I think the Hornady 115gr FMJ are the best looking bullet.  Very uniform sharp corner base.  Sierra Tournament master were rounded.  The pulled Atlanta Arms AMU bullet appears to be a Hornady or similar.   The Atlanta Arms pulled bullet had 4.1 gr of ???? powder.  Could have been Titegroup or WST or WSF all look about the same.  The search continues.

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by DeweyHales on Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:37 pm

Surely, someone in Ohio has some VV powders you can try.

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by sixftunda on Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:00 pm

Did you try the recipe I gave you?

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by dronning on Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:17 pm

According to their website Atlanta Arms uses the Sierra 115gr FMJ for the AMU bullseye load. Groups at 1.5" @ 50yrd.  They also load a 115gr Hornady XTP for PPC matches groups at 1.25" @ 50yrd they give the speed on this one @1100fps

Loads below are with a KKM barreled 1-32 twist gun,
Best 50YD accuracy <1.5" was (115gr XTP/HAP) 5.0 gr VV330
Also very good were:
4.8 VV320
5.4 WSF.

Power Pistol - don't have the weights

- Dave

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by CR10X on Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:05 pm

I found the MCP to be a little more of a challenge to get good groups using reloads for some reason as well. I used 5.0 gr WSF and make sure you do not over crimp the bullets.  I also found that primers can have a difference on the 50 yd 9mm loads as well.  For some reason, Remington Small Pistol and Fed Small Mag Pistol were better than the others.  Also, be sure to clean the barrel carefully and well between bullet types / tests.  The Power Pistol loads for 50 yds was a lot heavier than I wanted to shoot in the MCP gun.   Just some thoughts.  Work carefully, keep good records and consistently test.  Good Luck. 
Cecil

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:05 pm

Wish I could post and tell you what works but like you I'm still searching on 9mm hardball.

I'm working with a SIG P226 with some limited accurizing and still the factory barrel. For the second time, I have gotten test results with a JHP giving groups about half the size of what I can get with the Hornady 115-gr FMJ. Most of the way through the box and I'm about ready to give up on that particular bullet. Too bad since it's almost the only one I can find around here. I just don't want to pay $25/100 for the Speer 124-gr 100% copper coated ones that a certain LGS has had on the shelf for more than three months (boxes of 500 IIRC--I just calculated the per 100 price and passed them up).

The latest FMJ fail and JHP partial success was at 5.9 gr Power Pistol, 1142 FPS with the Hornady 115 FMJs and probably 1090 or so with Nosler 115-gr JHPs, each tested at 1.12" OAL and 1.14" OAL.  The FMJs had a velocity SD below 10 and an ES below 20, but that don't mean squat if they don't all land in the same place.

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by dronning on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:08 pm

Doesn't the SIG 226 have a 1-10 twist?  It might do better with a heavier bullet.  Have you tried a 147gr? 

My buddy did have good luck with Sierra 115 HPS and Hodgdon HS6 powder with loads near max recommendations before he gave up and installed a 1-16 twist barrel.

Dave

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:46 pm

Factory specs say the P226 has a 1:10 in 9mm.

The tightpatch cleaning rod agrees.

Odd that I have never had great groups with the 124-gr bullets, but most of those have been lead (we DO make good ones, at least based on .45 and .30 caliber results...) and very, very few jacketed.

Off to do some more testing.

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:29 pm

Umm, anyone try the Hornady 147-gr FMJs?

Conceivably they could give less wind drift...but we're after tight groups first.

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by C.Perkins on Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:04 pm

GrumpyOldMan wrote:Umm, anyone try the Hornady 147-gr FMJs?

Conceivably they could give less wind drift...but we're after tight groups first.

If we are talking EIC matches, the rules state 115-125gr FMJ ammunition only.
If we are not talking EIC matches, then disregard.

Clarence

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:32 pm

C.Perkins wrote:
GrumpyOldMan wrote:Umm, anyone try the Hornady 147-gr FMJs?

Conceivably they could give less wind drift...but we're after tight groups first.

If we are talking EIC matches, the rules state 115-125gr FMJ ammunition only.
If we are not talking EIC matches, then disregard.

Clarence
Oops, never mind for this thread.

Wish there was more info in the Hardball thread.

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by DeweyHales on Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:42 am

The most recent rumor I've heard is that any safe jacketed ammo will be legal for service pistol next year. 

I'm looking forward to the new rules being posted.

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:47 am

Dewey, if that's going to include hollow points I just might abandon the FMJ accuracy quest.

Last I checked, buying them by the box of 100 at two different LGSs there was either zero or 50 cents' difference in pricing between Hornady FMJs and their XTPs. Then there are those Nosler JHPs that seem to be working pretty well...

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Re: 9mm Hard Ball (what does not work)

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