Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

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Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by jell-dog on Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:21 pm

I'm looking for information on where I can find/obtain the article written by IIRR Jim E Clark Sr "Handloading for Accuracy in the S&W M52" printed in Gun Digest and also The Best of Gun Digest.
I am not sure what year this article was written.
Thank you in advance for any information you can supply.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by Jerry Keefer on Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:20 am

jell-dog wrote:I'm looking for information on where I can find/obtain the article written by IIRR Jim E Clark Sr "Handloading for Accuracy in the S&W M52" printed in Gun Digest and also The Best of Gun Digest.
I am not sure what year this article was written.
Thank you in advance for any information you can supply.
The 52 is a great BE gun with one glaring flaw.. It is super difficult,  if not impossible,  to get a 38 148 gr. HBWC to shoot well at 50 yards with a 1 X 18 .750 twist barrel. The  very slowest twist for a 38 should be 14.. I prefer 10 or 12.       I am working on a 52 now.. For amusement, I slugged the barrel. .355 exactly.. This is another problem.. Tight bores overly disrupt the projectile.. You can see in the photos how the ends of the bullet on the left from a factory 52 barrel, are in the shape of a "hex" due to distortion. I even throated the factory barrel with a 1-1/2 degree polished leade, but didn't help as you can see.. The bullet on the right is a match grade Shilen in 12 twist..   S&W has a problem with that same concept with the Mod 41.. Again, the 41 is a fantastic BE with the correct bore diameter.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by jell-dog on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:20 am

thank you for the information and great photos illustrating the effect of .358" hbwc in .355" barrels!

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by Jerry Keefer on Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:19 pm

jell-dog wrote:thank you for the information and great photos illustrating the effect of .358" hbwc in .355" barrels!
Gil Hebard also wrote  on the 52 ammo..
I know from talking with Al Marvel, that Jimmy Clark also advocated twists in the 10 or 12 range for the 1911's he built in 38 spl.
S&W revolvers are also 18.750 X 1 twist and when tuned well can shoot fair groups at 50, but with the advantage of a 6 inch barrel.. The 52 rifled section of the barrel is approx. 3.875 inches.  Much less barrel time to stabilize at approx. 13/64 of a full rotation .

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by beeser on Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:29 pm

I too would like to read the Clark article as I'm planning to load some .38 wadcutters in the next few weeks.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by jell-dog on Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:02 pm

beeser wrote:I too would like to read the Clark article as I'm planning to load some .38 wadcutters in the next few weeks.

I will post here when/if Gun Digest returns my request for information on where I may obtain this article.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by jell-dog on Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:06 pm

Jerry Keefer wrote:
jell-dog wrote:thank you for the information and great photos illustrating the effect of .358" hbwc in .355" barrels!
Gil Hebard also wrote  on the 52 ammo..
I know from talking with Al Marvel, that Jimmy Clark also advocated twists in the 10 or 12 range for the 1911's he built in 38 spl.
S&W revolvers are also 18.750 X 1 twist and when tuned well can shoot fair groups at 50, but with the advantage of a 6 inch barrel.. The 52 rifled section of the barrel is approx. 3.875 inches.  Much less barrel time to stabilize at approx. 13/64 of a full rotation .

I have Gil Hebard's article and it is very clear on how to hand load for the M52, article states it will not be as accurate as factory ammo, but is close enough until I can gain the experience needed to take advantage of factory ammo.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by noylj on Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:45 am

I would have thought a 17:1 twist barrel would be about ideal—huh.
Just some notes on what worked for me in my three M-52s (YMMV):
1) Remington 148gn HBWCs are without a doubt the most accurate and the least expensive bullets.
2) If possible, do NOT size the cases. If you must size the cases, get a Lee FCD and take out the crimping parts and use it to size the cases.
3) Don't be afraid to over-flare the case and use a 0.358" expander for the Remington 0.360" bullets. Getting the bullets properly straight and already seated about ¼" or more helps to keep the bullet aligned during seating.
4) Very important—use a Redding Profile Crimp Die for slightly roll crimp the case.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by BE Mike on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:31 am

Gil Hebard's article on reloading for the S&W model 52 is included in his book, "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury". This is a fair price: http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Pistol-Shooters-Treasury__PST.aspx

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by jell-dog on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:39 am

noylj wrote:I would have thought a 17:1 twist barrel would be about ideal—huh.
Just some notes on what worked for me in my three M-52s (YMMV):
1) Remington 148gn HBWCs are without a doubt the most accurate and the least expensive bullets.
2) If possible, do NOT size the cases. If you must size the cases, get a Lee FCD and take out the crimping parts and use it to size the cases.
3) Don't be afraid to over-flare the case and use a 0.358" expander for the Remington 0.360" bullets. Getting the bullets properly straight and already seated about ¼" or more helps to keep the bullet aligned during seating.
4) Very important—use a Redding Profile Crimp Die for slightly roll crimp the case.
Thank you for your loading information!
Only thing I need is redding profile crimp die.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by jell-dog on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:40 am

BE Mike wrote:Gil Hebard's article on reloading for the S&W model 52 is included in his book, "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury". This is a fair price: http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Pistol-Shooters-Treasury__PST.aspx
Great link, I'll get a copy, thanks!

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by beeser on Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:02 pm

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by Virgil Kane on Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:09 am

Just for grins and giggles, has anybody tried a 148 grain WC sized to .356 in their M-52?

I'm with Noylj and use only the filthy Remington 148 gr. HBWC and found it the best but was going to try sizing some other WC's down to .356 just to see what happens but wonder if it's worth the effort.


Virgil

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:30 am

If I could only remember the name of the company that makes home swaging equipment.  If I could remember I think their website gives info on them making their own moulds to your spec.

Try this: http://www.bulletswage.com

Rob Kovach
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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by Dr.Don on Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:18 am

Corbin was one company that made home swaging gear.  Don't know if they are still around.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by kwixdraw on Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:57 pm

I looked at Corbins stuff a while back. Many ways to go depending on what you want for an outcome. They appeared to still be going strong

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Jim E Clark Sr "Handloading for Accuracy"

Post by jell-dog on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:35 pm

jell-dog wrote:I'm looking for information on where I can find/obtain the article written by IIRR Jim E Clark Sr "Handloading for Accuracy in the S&W M52" printed in Gun Digest and also The Best of Gun Digest.
I am not sure what year this article was written.
Thank you in advance for any information you can supply.

The article I started this post for is actually:Handloading the Smith & Wesson Model 52 by Kent Bellah. I had read a thread where someone suggested that Jim E Clark, Sr wrote an article on Reloading for the Model 52.
I received a PM correcting my mistake in looking for article authored by Jim E Clark, Sr. Kent Bellah's article can be found in the 17th Edition of Gun Digest.
jell-dog

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by james r chapman on Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:32 am

Virgil Kane wrote:Just for grins and giggles, has anybody tried a 148 grain WC sized to .356 in their M-52?

I'm with Noylj and use only the filthy Remington 148 gr. HBWC and found it the best but was going to try sizing some other WC's down to .356 just to see what happens but wonder if it's worth the effort.


Virgil
Why not use the Magnus swaged hbwc's. They're already much closer in bore dia than the Remington..

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by Virgil Kane on Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:06 am

james r chapman wrote:
Virgil Kane wrote:Just for grins and giggles, has anybody tried a 148 grain WC sized to .356 in their M-52?

I'm with Noylj and use only the filthy Remington 148 gr. HBWC and found it the best but was going to try sizing some other WC's down to .356 just to see what happens but wonder if it's worth the effort.


Virgil
Why not use the Magnus swaged hbwc's. They're already much closer in bore dia than the Remington..


While I love Magnus bullets and use them in my 45 and 38 revolver I have not been able to get as good accuracy with the Magnus 148gr HBWC as I do with the Remington 148gr WC in my M-52. Don't know why?  I was thinking in terms of a regular WC sized to .356 and not a HBWC. I have an old H&G mould (forget the #'s) that was made for the M-52, it's flat on both sides with NO button nose. It's shoots OK sized to .358 but wonder what it would do sized to .356 in the M-52. But you are right, the Remington 148gr HBWC are huge with a very distinct  taper from nose to base.


Virgil

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by dronning on Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:38 am

+1 on the Remington for my M52-2, I'd add Precision Delta with match lube to the M-52 "they work great" list but the Remington's are way cheaper.

- Dave

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by Colt711 on Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:35 am

Jerry Keefer wrote:I know from talking with Al Marvel, that Jimmy Clark also advocated twists in the 10 or 12 range for the 1911's he built in 38 spl.

Jerry,
Is the Al Marvel referred to here the gentleman who ran matches for the COPL @ Cols OH PD range for many yrs?

Ron Habegger

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by beeser on Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:28 pm

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by noylj on Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:45 am

My loading procedure is designed to NOT swage the bullets down. It seemed to me that the Remingtons, ranging from 0.358" at the nose to 0.360" at the bottom, were the best by such a large amount that the size may be significant and I would expect swaging a bullet down would make it less accurate.
I ran a bunch of tests back in the '70s and found that shooting as-cast bullets were almost always more accurate than sized bullets, so I haven't sized any of my cast bullets for over 35 years.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by jell-dog on Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:23 pm

noylj,
what do you use to expand the .38 spl cases so that they do not swage the HBWC when seating?

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

Post by Jerry Keefer on Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:03 pm

Colt711 wrote:
Jerry Keefer wrote:I know from talking with Al Marvel, that Jimmy Clark also advocated twists in the 10 or 12 range for the 1911's he built in 38 spl.

Jerry,
Is the Al Marvel referred to here the gentleman who ran matches for the COPL @ Cols OH PD range for many yrs?

Ron Habegger

I don't really know.. Al lives in Jarrettsville, MD  If the range is near there, probably so..
He makes and sells 1911, HS, parts, and the best 1911 optics rib available..  He has pretty much retired from doing the full time gunsmithing. He is a reknowned BE smith..
Ooops..Didn't catch that OH PD at first, so I really doubt it.

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Re: Jim E Clark Sr Article on M52 handloading

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