Loads for S&W model 52

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Loads for S&W model 52

Post by rhyno01 on Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:35 pm

Hey all,
I am shooting my 52 in bullseye. I have been using 148g HBWC and 2.8g of bullseye which is about 730fps. I was told that first you need to keep load pressures down on the old 52's. And I was also told that with HBWC bullets you need to be over 800fps. I worked it out to be a load of about 3.4g of bullseye with the 148g HBWC. I tried it today and found it to be very accurate. I am concerned about the higher pressure's though.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Royce

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by james r chapman on Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:12 pm

Did it shoot any better than your accepted load from, oh, 60 years or so?

there's a reason that all the factory loaded 148 hbwc's are 710 fps, give or take.

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by dronning on Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:34 pm

Careful on the HBWC and over pressure you will separate the base from the rest of the bullet.  It usually gets left behind just a short distance from the chamber.  A follow up shot leaves a nice bulge in the barrel.  I own a 52 with that bulge, it happened before I got the gun.  I bought it anyway because it still shot a pretty tight group and I got it for a good price.

- Dave

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by rhyno01 on Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:49 pm

james r chapman wrote:Did it shoot any better than your accepted load from, oh, 60 years or so?

there's a reason that all the factory loaded 148 hbwc's are 710 fps, give or take.

Actually the 3.4g load was extremely accurate. But I could hear the gun screaming for mercy. 2.8g of bullseye is considered the standard and safe velocity?

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by KenO on Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:55 pm

If it works for you, can't argue with success, my experience was different.

Early this year I bought a M52 off of Gun Broker. I loaded up some 148 HBWC over the lowest starting load listed in my reloading manual. The groups were horrible, so I started working up and trying, the groups got worse. I was getting close to max, then gave up.

I told a friend who many years ago shot on a LEO team which supplied M52s and match ammo. He still had a couple boxes, one was Federal, and one was Remington that he had me try. It grouped great, and had me puzzled, so I ran it over a Chrony, and it clocked at 700 and 710 fps, I don't remember which was which, but both brands grouped just fine.

The starting load of manual came in at about 750fps, you wouldn't think it would make that much difference, but it did. I dropped the load to get the factory velocity, and it was unbelievable the difference. My charge is 2.6 of Tight Group or Bullseye.

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by rhyno01 on Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:47 pm

KenO wrote:If it works for you, can't argue with success, my experience was different.

Early this year I bought a M52 off of Gun Broker. I loaded up some 148 HBWC over the lowest starting load listed in my reloading manual. The groups were horrible, so I started working up and trying, the groups got worse. I was getting close to max, then gave up.

I told a friend who many years ago shot on a LEO team which supplied M52s and match ammo. He still had a couple boxes, one was Federal, and one was Remington that he had me try. It grouped great, and had me puzzled, so I ran it over a Chrony, and it clocked at 700 and 710 fps, I don't remember which was which, but both brands grouped just fine.

The starting load of manual came in at about 750fps, you wouldn't think it would make that much difference, but it did. I dropped the load to get the factory velocity, and it was unbelievable the difference. My charge is 2.6 of Tight Group or Bullseye.

I will for sure give your load a try. What is the velocity of the 2.6?

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by KenO on Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:24 am

rhyno01 wrote:

I will for sure give your load a try. What is the velocity of the 2.6?

I don't have my notes with me, I'm snowbirding. But, it was just over 700.

KenO

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by james r chapman on Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:55 am

In a 6" s&w mod 14 PPC gun it was 689.416 averaging 12 rounds. yours will be slightly more..

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by rhyno01 on Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:27 pm

Hey folks,
I appreciate all the info. I am actually now at 2.5g of bullseye. Very nice shooting and the gun was happy. Found a bit better grouping than 2.6g. But will keep experimenting.

Royce

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by rhyno01 on Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:22 pm

KenO wrote:If it works for you, can't argue with success, my experience was different.

Early this year I bought a M52 off of Gun Broker. I loaded up some 148 HBWC over the lowest starting load listed in my reloading manual. The groups were horrible, so I started working up and trying, the groups got worse. I was getting close to max, then gave up.

I told a friend who many years ago shot on a LEO team which supplied M52s and match ammo. He still had a couple boxes, one was Federal, and one was Remington that he had me try. It grouped great, and had me puzzled, so I ran it over a Chrony, and it clocked at 700 and 710 fps, I don't remember which was which, but both brands grouped just fine.

The starting load of manual came in at about 750fps, you wouldn't think it would make that much difference, but it did. I dropped the load to get the factory velocity, and it was unbelievable the difference. My charge is 2.6 of Tight Group or Bullseye.

I tried 2.5g of BE today. Very ho hum. Looking back in my score cards the best I shot with my 52 was with 2.8g of BE. The lighter loads would get little groups of 2 or 3 shots. But the 2.8g was pretty consistent and gave me a single large group. Pretty much steady scores in the 90's for issf slow fire. Guess you have to go with what shoots well in the gun.

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by Virgil Kane on Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:28 am

2.7/2.8 grains of Bullseye is the classic load for the M-52. Don't know of one that didn't shoot well with these loads.


Virgil

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by Jerry Keefer on Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:38 am

I was never able to produce good groups with bullseye  in the 38.. I don't know of any of the top shooters, back in my PPC days that used bullseye.. I tried..and tried again.. It would not perform to the level of other powders.. 231 and WST are day and night better..Back in those days, we worked very hard at perfecting an accurate 50 yard load to gain an advantage on the competition.. Few powders went untested..and nearly all did better than Bullseye. Now it's a different story with the 45.. I love the stuff for short line especially.
The Model 52 has many issues working against it.  .355 bore diameter and an 18 + twist are major factors to overcome. Plus the bushing system is "far" from ideal..I had a long talk yesterday with one of the old time top AMU smiths.. They had many 52s back in the day...Stating, "The accuracy was always an issue". I believe I can greatly improve the accuracy negatives,  by changing out the  barrel to a 10/12 twist and I have already completed the bushing revamp .  We shall see..Smile

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by Steve B on Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:58 pm

How's that 52 coming along with the new barrel Jerry?  Please post a few photos over here.

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by Jerry Keefer on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:25 pm

Steve B wrote:How's that 52 coming along with the new barrel Jerry?  Please post a few photos over here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Steve;
I have slowed down a little the last couple of weeks to do some deer hunting and coyote trapping.. Got back yesterday, and will get some work done on it now slowly, as I'll still be in the woods, swamps,  and fields locally..for a month or so..

I have the Micro base in place, silver solder and welding is done,  re blued.. and the bushing is worked out.. Top pic is the bushing.. I removed all the factory "junk" and machined a solid full thread contact that uses all the threads and locks against  the slide face.. It's twice as long, locks up tight, and much thicker.. The bottom pic is how the bushing started out..4140.. The middle pic shows the optic base.. I have to make the Micro mount yet.. and the tubes.. The grip panel on the left side is being omitted and an aluminum panel will be in place there to enable the shooter more purchase on the trigger.  Short fingers..Smile We have function tested it... Shot great.. I am still contemplating some ammo modifications..Fun stuff.


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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

Post by Steve B on Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:24 pm

Cool.  Makes me wish I had time to invest in machining classes...

Steve B

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Re: Loads for S&W model 52

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