NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

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NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by Rob Kovach on 11/24/2014, 11:04 am

First topic message reminder :

I have received word from Denny Willing that one of the NRA committees has approved the name change for our sport to no longer be "NRA Conventional Pistol" but will instead be named "Precision Pistol".

I believe that this is a HUGE mistake.  Name changes only create confusion.  Remember, NRA says we are all geriatric, senile, senior citizens.  When our shooters search for Conventional pistol matches, they wont find any.  With the way NRA promotes shooting sports, there will be shooters who weren't aware of the change.

Why can't I find any "conventional pistol" matches anymore?  Because they won't exist anymore if this goes through.

I try to think of any institution that changed it's "brand" in a successful way, and I can't think of anything.  The closest I can think of is Coca-Cola to Coke, but they really keep Coca-Cola as the true brand identity.  Name changes just don't work. This is a bad idea.

This change still needs approval from the Competition Rules and Programs Committee and the Board of Directors before it becomes permanent.

If you have comments about this proposed change, you can email me at kovach_robert@hotmail.com and I will forward your email to Denny for submission to the applicable committees.  I do not know when those committees meet so if you intend to comment, sent me your email right away.

-Rob Kovach
kovach_robert@hotmail.com
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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by Deerspy on 2/4/2015, 1:54 pm

it makes you wonder I e-mailed them about my classification which has not changed sense the first time back in september of 2010 my first class marksman but I have should have moved up to sharpshooter more than once over the last four years, the answer I got was they did not have time to enter my scores, and I thought that was what the entry fee was to pay for!

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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by Rob Kovach on 2/4/2015, 9:27 pm

This is off topic and should probably be its own thread.  I haven't heard many examples of this.  I'll discuss it with Denny Willing soon.
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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by xman on 2/5/2015, 3:49 pm

Funny that "precison pistol" sounds like you need fancy equipment to shoot. that would be the death of bullseye type shooting as we now know it-- IMHO. Just because Mr. Zins suggested it does not mean it is what is best for the sport. Better marketing, more user friendly NRA competitions website to find matches, better use of our fees from all of the shooting sports. Renaming it just further balkcanizes (sp) the naming of our sports. Precision this, precison that. What gives?

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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by Rob Kovach on 2/5/2015, 6:19 pm

Well, xman, I felt the same way until I started working on this fundraising idea I've been working on and when talking to outsiders it seems to be easier to describe what we do by saying "precision pistol" over "conventional pistol".

Besides, the name change is complete.  Good or bad, we are "Precision Pistol" competitors now.

I wonder if when my Expert card comes in if it will reflect the new name or if they are going to use the old pre-printed card stock up first.
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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by xman on 2/6/2015, 9:51 am

ron,

coventional means just what it says..conventional. ordinary pistols of certain calibers may be used. Precison pistol still denotes "special" outfitted pistols and prospective shooters might shy away from exploring "precision pistol" just because of that fact. Nothwithstanding the " its a done deal", It just adds to the confusion of all the various disciplines with the name " precison" added to the name.

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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by rvlvrlvr on 2/6/2015, 10:51 am

xman wrote:coventional means just what it says..conventional. ordinary pistols of certain calibers may be used. Precison pistol still denotes "special" outfitted pistols and prospective shooters might shy away from exploring "precision pistol" just because of that fact. Nothwithstanding the " its a done deal", It just adds to the confusion of all the various disciplines with the name " precison" added to the name.

I thought "conventional" meant the normal way to shoot a pistol "back in the day" -- one-handed, bladed/semi-bladed stance -- though perhaps it did also have something to do with the equipment used. Nowadays, almost everyone I know shoots with some sort of special gun, maybe with special grips, specifically tuned/designed/adapted for [i]precision[i] shooting; the "conventional" way of shooting a pistol has moved on -- NRA Basic Pistol and FIRST Steps Pistol classes introduce shooters to the isosceles stance and two-handed grip, for example. I think the name "Precision Pistol" describes the general idea of what we do better than "Conventional Pistol" or even "Bullseye".
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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by xman on 2/6/2015, 3:38 pm

rvlvrlvr wrote:
..........Nowadays, almost everyone I know shoots with some sort of special gun, maybe with special grips, specifically tuned/designed/adapted for [i]precision[i] shooting; the "conventional" way of shooting a pistol has moved on -- NRA Basic Pistol and FIRST Steps Pistol classes introduce shooters to the isosceles stance and two-handed grip, for example. I think the name "Precision Pistol" describes the general idea of what we do better than "Conventional Pistol" or even "Bullseye".
The point is to attract NEW shooters. Not to rename for those that already in the game. We as a group cannot depend on those migrating from NRA Basic Pistol and FIRST Steps Pistol to come over to " Bullseye/Conventional/Precision". Anyhow the position ..one handed and other wise illustrated for conventional is stated in the rule book. You said it yourself "..........Nowadays, almost everyone I know shoots with some sort of special gun, maybe with special grips, specifically tuned/designed/adapted for ..." Having the "precision" moniker will be a turn off. Unless the new prospect slogs thru the rulebook..they will see that their "ordinary .22 and/or .45 is more than adedate TO START. Thats  the idea in a nutshell. New blood unfretted by the  new lingo/title that raises doubt in their minds about their equipment right from the start before they even investigate what the new (to them) "precision" pistol is all about.

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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by rvlvrlvr on 2/6/2015, 4:28 pm

xman wrote:The point is to attract NEW shooters...their ordinary .22 and/or .45 is more than adequate TO START. That's the idea in a nutshell. New blood unfretted by the new lingo/title that raises doubt in their minds about their equipment right from the start before they even investigate what the new (to them) "precision" pistol is all about.

I thought that is what the Probationary Matches are for - new shooters will be encouraged to use what they have, even two-handed if they want. If they like it, they should be encouraged to try shooting 'Conventional' (one-handed). Match directors and leagues were to allow newbies to shoot Probationary side-by-side with Conventional/Precision shooters on the same course of fire. I remember Probationary Matches being added to the rulebook a couple years ago, but somehow I can't find any mention of them in the rulebook now (was supposed to be in Rule 24). My local league does provide a Probationary category for new shooters, anyways (and for older or disabled shooters who find it difficult to hold their guns up with only one hand anymore), and it's been pretty successful. We've had a number of new shooters join us in the past two seasons starting off with Probationary, and some have even switched to shooting Conventional.

There is a .22 Caliber Only Aggregate Match (.22-cal 2700, appropriately outlined in Rule 22) that I suppose is meant to do something similar - a shooter can shoot an entire 2700 with their .22 pistol and not need to worry about having a $2000 wadgun.

In both cases, the rulebook does provide for some newbie-friendly version of normal matches; it's up to us to provide those opportunities. More matches, postal matches, etc. I think the new name better describes the activity, and I don't think it implies that any special equipment is required. In fact, I think most shooters understand that their guns are up there in terms of accuracy; whenever I read an informal review about some pistol, the phrase stating the gun is "more accurate than I am" is almost always in there somewhere. Even the FAQ for my league says:

Almost any gun is capable of shooting better than the person holding it. This is true for most of the shooters in the league...

I predict that in promoting our sport (that we shooters will have to provide ourselves; I haven't seen much from our governing body recently) we'll still introduce it as "Bullseye", which I feel is a friendlier name than either "Conventional Pistol" or "Precision Pistol". Then we'll clarify that its more formal name is "Precision Pistol", and explain why we call it that name.
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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by xman on 2/6/2015, 5:45 pm

Lets take this a bit further. Lets rename High Power Rifle...Precision Center Fire Rifle...if the logic of renaming disciplines that "better" reflect what is being done. And rename Small bore rifle..Precision Rimfire Rifle. Etc, etc. Where does it end? Maybe Shooting sports USA and the NRA should include shoot information about paintball too and call it a precision shooting sport too. Just to advance a shooting sport as they do now at the end of the coming events section of SSUSA.

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Re: NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

Post by Rob Kovach on 2/6/2015, 5:47 pm

I don't make the connection between the name "precision pistol" and the equipment--I always saw it as what we are doing at the match.  Firing whatever pistol we have in a precise manner.

We need to remind new shooters that there are classifications and space for shooters of all skill levels, and equipment levels.  Shooting in a precise way, whether 1 handed or 2 is how we improve our proficiency with our pistol, no matter if it's fancy or not.

Everyone I know who ever got involved in this sport never did it thinking they would be the national champion in their first match.  They all wanted to see how they would stack up against other shooters, and see if they could shoot a little better than the last time.  If that happens to be with a striker fired plastic gun, or with a $4000 custom it's still the nut behind the trigger that determines whether the gun is fired with precision or not.
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