Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

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Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Sewer Rat on Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:23 am

I've run across a new full-size S&W PC 1911 and am wondering if anyone has any experience with that model.  The S&W site says that the slide to frame and barrel/bushing are hand lapped and that the guns get a custom trigger, so I would assume they are pretty accurate.  Anybody know?

Thanks!

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:56 am

I haven't seen one personally, but based on my experience as a BE gunsmith I'm willing to bet the barrel isn't properly fit to slide and slide stop pin. So called custom shops do not build BE quality pistols. If you are serious about shooting BE, buy a BE specific pistol.
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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by DavidR on Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:05 pm

Springfield makes a custom shop bullseye model that seems to do real well, price runs around 25 hundred.

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Rob Kovach on Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:43 pm

Is this the pistol you are talking about? 
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_814072_-1_757900_757896_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Sewer Rat on Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:35 pm

Rob, Yep, that's the one. It's purty, but that doesn't always mean it shoots straight.

Jon, thanks for the input.  I'm a bit suspicious about S&W's claims simply because they have a marketing department, I really appreciate input from guys like you.  I'm not shooting competition and really don't plan on it, but I want something that could shoot that well if asked to.

David, I did send an email to Springfield about their custom target model, but never got a response.  Maybe I should try again.

Thanks all!
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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:57 pm

Whether you choose to compete or not, i highly recommend the SA range officer. Al it will need it trigger job, and a properly fit barrel bushing. Sometimes a new oversized slide stop pin helps. Also replacing mainspring housing and new hammer, sear and disconnecter for longevity. It will more than likely shoot as good as the other 2 pistols. I have worked on S&W 19 11 ' s and they are just ok. For the price of a SA custom shop pistol you're not getting your money's worth.
Jon

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Sewer Rat on Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:43 pm

I have considered going with the range officer or even their loaded target model and figured that if I did I would drop in a new sear and hammer to get a better trigger pull.  Now comes the question that proves how little I really know....why do the mainspring housing?
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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by james r chapman on Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:47 pm

for one, it has a massively excessively heavy spring that adversely affects trigger pull weights...

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:56 pm

It doesn't hold the mainspring captive when you take apart the pistol. Pain in the rear. It also looks ugly with the key lock portion. And I think all of them are arched; I prefer flat. And finally, spring is different length than typical mainspring.
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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:17 am

There are kits from Cylinder and Slide that include everything you would need to improve your trigger pull feel and lighten the weight.  The kit comes with hammer, sear, leaf spring and mainspring.  If you were installing these parts into a Range Officer, you would need a GI mainspring cap and retainer pin.  You could also replace the mainspring housing with a non ILS one of your liking, but that isn't required.

You could also contact KC Crawford on this forum--he makes a fantastic roll trigger kit, and I'm sure he would be able to send you the parts you would need for a RO trigger job.

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Sewer Rat on Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:50 am

I've heard of roll triggers, but never fired one.  I've got an old Gold Cup that has a nice "glass rod" trigger that I like, although it is due for a kit from Cylinder and Slide since I noticed when replacing the springs that the hooks are pretty worn.  I have a feeling my wife is going to love you guys; I'm thinking I'll start looking around for a range officer, replace a few parts and come out 4 or 5 hundred bucks ahead.  Unless another 52-2 pops up at a reasonable price, then all thoughts of another 1911 are out the window along with my money. Smile

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Axehandle on Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:04 pm

FWIW I shot next to one of our High Master Grand Seniors a few weeks back.  Noticed he was shooting a S&W 1911 for centerfire and 45.  I asked him about the thing.  He said that he had been a S&W Team shooter a while back and that S&W had provided the 1911 to him through their custom shop.  He added that S&W did not know how to build a Bullseye gun so he had to have the gun gone through by a skilled BE gun builder before it was a competitive match gun.   IMHO you guys take these Springfield RO recommendations with a grain of salt.  They are more gun for the money than anything the Bullseye shooters have ever had available as an off the shelf gun but they aren't anything close to what a top drawer Bullseye gunsmith can produce for you.  Another plus for the RO is their slides and frames are pretty well recognized as excellent raw material to build on.


Last edited by Axehandle on Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by 82boy on Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:28 pm

I have a good friend that has one of these guns, I have fired it a few times, and I must say for an "out of box" 1911 it is one fine piece of work, it is very accurate.  The trigger pull is very nice, not sure of the weight, but my guess is it is under 3lbs. It is a crisp trigger. The gun shoots very well for being an out of box pistol. He use to shoot indoor bullseye but due to illness he got out of it. He bought the gun to get back into the sport.  Would I say it is in the same class as a full out custom bullseye pistol, and the answer is no. I would say it is one of the nicest out of box pistols made today.

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Sewer Rat on Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:28 am

Thanks for all the input everybody!  Even though the S&W sounds like it's most likely more accurate than my shaky hand, I think I've decided to go the Range Officer route.  It'll be fun to start from scratch and see what I can do with a few hundred dollars in parts. Maybe even end up with Ceracoat on it eventually.  I even started browsing Brownells which lead to finally ordering the trigger kit it needs. Now then.....anyone got a tight fitting RO they are dying to get rid of? Smile

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Jack H on Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:39 am

What's the Ceracoat for?

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Sewer Rat on Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:49 am

Make it look purty.  Verrrrry optional, and only after I've got everything else done.  But I've been known to paint cars that don't really need it, so why not a gun?

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:36 am

Because Ceracoat and all of the other paints add dimension.  On a tightly fit bullseye pistol that can be a REAL problem.

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by 82boy on Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:54 am

kc.crawford.7 wrote:Because Ceracoat and all of the other paints add dimension.  On a tightly fit bullseye pistol that can be a REAL problem.

+1

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by jmdavis on Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:01 pm

I bought a used Range Officer a couple of months ago. I got it for a great price, it has the best trigger I have found on a commercial 1911. It breaks almost clean and at just over 3.5 lbs. I plan to send it out when barrels are available for work, but with the addition of a spring kit, it has given me a decent platform to start working with an iron sighted wad gun.


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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by Jack H on Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:00 pm

I am waiting for the CMP pistol rules before I do anything more to my Range officer.  So far I have the KC axe hammer set.  And Roddy is fitting a new MSH.

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by DavidR on Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:32 pm

jmdavis wrote:I bought a used Range Officer a couple of months ago. I got it for a great price, it has the best trigger I have found on a commercial 1911. It breaks almost clean and at just over 3.5 lbs. I plan to send it out when barrels are available for work, but with the addition of a spring kit, it has given me a decent platform to start working with an iron sighted wad gun.


might want to get it ransome tested before buying a barrel many are reporting 3'' and better 50 yard groups with factory barrel.

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by jmdavis on Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:50 pm

David,

The plan is to get Dave Salyer to look at it and do what needs to be done. It may just need a bushing, but it might need a barrel and bushing or more.

I do have access to a ransom rest via a friend. I could test it, but all I have right now is hardball.

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by DavidR on Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:15 pm

Dave can get it going good for sure.

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

Post by bking on Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:58 pm

DavidR wrote:
might want to get it ransome tested before buying a barrel many are reporting 3'' and better 50 yard groups with factory barrel.

The factory barrel on my Range Officer shot 1 3/8" test targets after Roddy Toyota built it. For sure try the stock barrel before spending money on a new one.

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Re: Smith and Wesson Performance Center 1911 for bullseye?

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