New EIC ammo for rules change

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New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jkvandal on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:18 pm

So it seems that the ammo has been opened up for the 1911 for EIC competition to any weight metal jacketed bullets...unfortunately this doesn't quite fall into my plans of casting my bullets for the upcoming season.

What options are out there for jacketed ammo that will be a step up for accuracy and recoil from the 230gr for the .45? I'd assume it would be some sort of hollow point bullet between 185-200gr?

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by xringshooter on Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:55 pm

Try the Nosler Competition 185 grain JHP's.  They shoot very well in my Clark accurized Hard Ball M1911.

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by DavidR on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:00 pm

zero 185 fmj-hp, do as good as nosler 4.5 of bullseye will shoot x ring out of accurate guns

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:24 pm

Looks like three of the "pet loads" are for JHP already with all of them either using Zero 185gr JHP or listing Nosler as alternative just as Dave mentioned.  I have a couple pounds of Bullseye, but I have more Titegroup.  Any advice on how many grains of Titegroup to push the 185gr JHP Zeros?

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1209-pet-loads-of-top-shooters-loads-from-the-past

Also, check out Roze distribution, no shipping if you order over 1000 rounds and the prices are the lowest I could find.

http://www.rozedist.com/

Zero 185 JHP
Starline brass
4.5~4.7 bullseye
Seat with RN seater so about 0.070 of straight wall is exposed. OAL will vary slightly.
LFC to 0.469~.470

Nosler or Zero 185 JHP
4.4gr N310
consistent brass
OAL 1.25"
WIN or FED primers both work
Medium crimp (~0.468") but I've not tested other crimps.

185 JHP from Zero
4.5 grains of BE

Nosler or Zero JHP's at 50 yds.

4.5 of Bullseye


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jkvandal on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:29 pm

I wonder if all those with 4.5gr bullseye are for 50yards and if there is a recommended softer recoiling load (~4.0gr BE?) for 25...

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:05 pm

Shame, shame, shame! EIC was meant to be shot with Hardball type loads! Down loading cheapens the game!
Jon

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:15 pm

I agree, but maybe it's better to have more competition.  Maybe this will improve the challenge in a different way.

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by DeweyHales on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:28 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Shame, shame, shame! EIC was meant to be shot with Hardball type loads! Down loading cheapens the game!
Jon

The CMP is rewriting the rule book to increase competition. Most different ammo recoils differently. White box doesn't recoil like American Eagle. If it functions the gun, it's good stuff. 

Most badges in rifle are earned with ammo that doesn't fit in a mag. The best competitors still win. The badge isn't cheapened by the best competitors winning it. In rifle, scores are very high. Medals are won by X's. 

Pistol could soon be like that again.

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by john bickar on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:35 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Shame, shame, shame! EIC was meant to be shot with Hardball type loads! Down loading cheapens the game!
Jon
Jon, I agree with you, but that horse was 3/4 of the way out of the barn already, and the new CMP rules put it in a different ZIP code from the barn.

To go along with my Walther OSPs, I now have even more purpose-built guns that have been rendered valueless by a rule change.

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jkvandal on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:41 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Shame, shame, shame! EIC was meant to be shot with Hardball type loads! Down loading cheapens the game!
Jon
While this debate wasn't my intent with this thread (pretty well covered elsewhere), I have no influence in the rules, and if the rules changes makes it easier to shoot X's, that advantage is not just to me but to everyone in the match. Therefore is it really an advantage if it just makes shooting in the top 10% require a higher score since everyone's scores should theoretically increase? "Softball loads" were already legal before this rules change anyways...right or wrong.

Either way, that decision is out of my hands and the rules are what they are...I'm just looking for the best options that fit within the current rules, don't shoot the competitor! Wink

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Brian Mason on Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:34 pm

My new short line load: 185 GR JHP, NO powder, just Large Pistol MAGNUM primer, 3 lb recoil spring. Bullets will not clear the barrel until the fifth shot, which will knock all five projectiles into the x-ring at once.

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:37 pm

It looks like with 185gr JHP from Nosler or Zero  4.5 ~ 4.7 gr of bullseye or 4.4gr N310 are ideal. 

What about Titegroup? I've found a pretty wild range, from 4.4 - 5.2 gr for the long line.  Any tips on a start point?

Lyman 3rd Edition:

185 gr JHP COL 1.175
TiteGroup 4.9 (881) to 5.5 (953)


http://static.squarespace.com/static/5163436ce4b0b470bd1fbb00/t/51ba53a2e4b02581f559641a/1371165602804/45-ACP-185gr-version+7-0.pdf

Nosler
185 gr JHP COL 1.2
TiteGroup 5.2 gr


916 fps

http://pelhamfishandgame.org/reloading/45/petloads.htm

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jkvandal on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:07 pm

Brian Mason wrote:My new short line load: 185 GR JHP, NO powder, just Large Pistol MAGNUM primer, 3 lb recoil spring. Bullets will not clear the barrel until the fifth shot, which will knock all five projectiles into the x-ring at once.
Perfect!  That way I can really make that Bullseye powder last, thanks for the tip!  lol!

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jkvandal on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:14 pm

JayhawkNavy02 wrote:Looks like three of the "pet loads" are for JHP already with all of them either using Zero 185gr JHP or listing Nosler as alternative just as Dave mentioned.  I have a couple pounds of Bullseye, but I have more Titegroup.  Any advice on how many grains of Titegroup to push the 185gr JHP Zeros?

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1209-pet-loads-of-top-shooters-loads-from-the-past

Also, check out Roze distribution, no shipping if you order over 1000 rounds and the prices are the lowest I could find.

http://www.rozedist.com/

Zero 185 JHP
Starline brass
4.5~4.7 bullseye
Seat with RN seater so about 0.070 of straight wall is exposed. OAL will vary slightly.
LFC to 0.469~.470

Nosler or Zero 185 JHP
4.4gr N310
consistent brass
OAL 1.25"
WIN or FED primers both work
Medium crimp (~0.468") but I've not tested other crimps.

185 JHP from Zero
4.5 grains of BE

Nosler or Zero JHP's at 50 yds.

4.5 of Bullseye

I'll have to start with these, thanks for digging them up! Hopefully you don't have too much extra hardball sitting around!

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:21 pm

Just about put in an order for 1,000 this week, but one of the guys in the league told me to hold.  Good thing, now I'm going to get 1,000 Zero 185gr JHPs instead.  I have two pounds of BE, but I was hoping to use my Titegroup up first, but so far there doesn't seem to be that much information out there on a good load with it unfortunately.

Got to get ready for LANTFLT right!  Smile


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jkvandal on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:23 pm

If you wouldn't mind sharing with me where you're getting the 185gr JHPs after you order yours that would be much appreciated!

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:25 pm

JayhawkNavy02 wrote:Looks like three of the "pet loads" are for JHP already with all of them either using Zero 185gr JHP or listing Nosler as alternative just as Dave mentioned.  I have a couple pounds of Bullseye, but I have more Titegroup.  Any advice on how many grains of Titegroup to push the 185gr JHP Zeros?

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1209-pet-loads-of-top-shooters-loads-from-the-past

Also, check out Roze distribution, no shipping if you order over 1000 rounds and the prices are the lowest I could find.

http://www.rozedist.com/

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jkvandal on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:27 pm

Oh thanks I checked roze earlier but I didn't see where they had any in Stock, must have looked in the wrong place.

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:29 pm

Nope, your right, they're out of stock, but worth checking back to see when they're back in.  That's the lowest price I could find, but others probably know better than me.


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by LenV on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:31 pm

New EIC ammo for rules change? I would think it would be time to re-think the ammo for the 9 also. I was in a funk about all the 230gr hardball I have loaded up and then I had an epiphany. I have way more 115gr XTP loaded with Power Pistol for my 9 then I have hardball loads for my 45. Looks like this might be the year the Berretta gets a work out. Nice to be able to use hot accurate ammo.

Len

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jkvandal on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:33 pm

Agreed,  I'll keep my eyes open,  shooters pro shop also had the Nosler 185 jhp blems occasionally,  definitely gotta load up for the Navy matches, I assume you saw the official dates for this year? 17-26 April

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:34 pm

Yep, I'm helping out CDR Glancey.  Somebody has to take out the trash.


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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Jkvandal on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:36 pm

Good! That means you'll be helping out me since I'll be Asst Match Director this year!

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Ed Hall on Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:34 am

I currently use Zero/Nosler 185 JHP with 4.0 BE over a Winchester Large Primer in Federal cases at ~1.197 OAL with ~.469 crimp for 25 yards.

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

Post by Brian Mason on Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:12 am

Jkvandal wrote:
Brian Mason wrote:My new short line load: 185 GR JHP, NO powder, just Large Pistol MAGNUM primer, 3 lb recoil spring. Bullets will not clear the barrel until the fifth shot, which will knock all five projectiles into the x-ring at once.
Perfect!  That way I can really make that Bullseye powder last, thanks for the tip!  lol!
You're quite welcome, John! You see, all this reloading for Service Pistol matches is new to me because when I legged out, ammo was issued on the line in Dixie cups. In fact, in the match I legged out in I was issued 27 rounds of corroded WWI ammo and 3 rounds of 30 Luger. But I didn't protest because at least it wasn't TZZ. In fact, one poor SOB got 30 rounds of TZZ and the recoil from the first shot blew his arm cleanly off (creating quite an unsafe condition on a firing line with 1400 people--matches were better attended back then). He still legged with his good arm. In the end they caught Charlie Askins with a 1911 modified to shoot .177 pellets and DQ'd him, then they DQ'd Joe Pascarella for using a dot (they also charged him with a felony). Andy Moody ended up winning the match despite drinking 4 cups of coffee (Pike's Place Blend), smoking 3 packs of cigarettes (menthol), and disassembling his pistol twice during Rapid Fire. Joe Benner turned out to be some general wearing Joe Benner's jacket, and First Leather scored a 294.

At least that's the way I recall it, but you have to remember this was back in 2013 and then again I've been breathing a lot of primer smoke shooting indoor league, and I don't necessarily remember so good.

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Re: New EIC ammo for rules change

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