The Updated Rules

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The Updated Rules

Post by DeweyHales on 1/6/2015, 4:19 pm

avatar
DeweyHales

Posts : 594
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by Jon Eulette on 1/6/2015, 4:48 pm

Well for some reason I don't feel threatened by the NEW pistols allowed for EIC match :p).
avatar
Jon Eulette

Posts : 1747
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by james r chapman on 1/6/2015, 4:49 pm

looks like no 9mm 1911's....
avatar
james r chapman

Posts : 2168
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 68
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by dronning on 1/6/2015, 4:50 pm

DeweyHales wrote:The updated rules.

Thanks for the link
Oops misprint on cover.  This is the 19th addition.  The misprint says it supersedes the 19th addition - oops

- Dave
avatar
dronning

Posts : 1466
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 64
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by jmdavis on 1/6/2015, 4:55 pm

Thanks Dewey!

Looks like what we mostly expected. I really wish that they would allow more than one military match for civillians though. Ah well.
avatar
jmdavis

Posts : 1126
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Virginia

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by LenV on 1/6/2015, 5:08 pm

Thanks Dewey!

    It answered 99% of the questions that have been circulating. I am left with only 2 questions after reading these new rules. 1. Is a SWC the same as a WC? I know the NRA allows SWC but not WC for DSR matches. 2. Is a metal jacketed bullet the same as a FMJ? I have noticed that some FMJ's really are not and have lead exposed on the base. I bring this up because of the HP questions. I am just throwing those questions out there with the hope someone has the answers.

Len
avatar
LenV

Posts : 2586
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 67
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by DeweyHales on 1/6/2015, 5:11 pm

james r chapman wrote:looks like no 9mm 1911's....
Yeah. That surprised me a bit.
avatar
DeweyHales

Posts : 594
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by LenV on 1/6/2015, 5:26 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Well for some reason I don't feel threatened by the NEW pistols allowed for EIC match :p).


I think there was one pistol on the list that would make me worry a little. The Browning Hi-power can be a tack driver and there are a lot of them out there. I think they could give a lot of the stuff on the line a run for it. Just my opinion of course.

Len
avatar
LenV

Posts : 2586
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 67
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by gitkrunk on 1/6/2015, 5:35 pm

yay my pardini qualifies for the 22 match
avatar
gitkrunk

Posts : 163
Join date : 2013-01-01
Age : 31
Location : Anchorage,AK

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by Brian Mason on 1/6/2015, 5:37 pm

For .22 pistol:

"Any system of recoil based on a compensator, barrel venting, barrel porting or other recoil reduction system operating in a similar manner is prohibited."

Does that mean the Pardini and Feinwerkbau are prohibited because they have recoil buffers?

Brian Mason

Posts : 25
Join date : 2011-06-12
Location : Maryland

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by dronning on 1/6/2015, 6:08 pm

Brian Mason wrote:For .22 pistol:

"Any system of recoil based on a compensator, barrel venting, barrel porting or other recoil reduction system operating in a similar manner is prohibited."

Does that mean the Pardini and Feinwerkbau are prohibited because they have recoil buffers?


"operating in a similar manner"  to me based on their descriptions = gas operated recoil reduction of some kind.  So if it doesn't use spent gasses I'd guess it's ok. 

- Dave
avatar
dronning

Posts : 1466
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 64
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by Brian Mason on 1/6/2015, 6:28 pm

dronning wrote:
"operating in a similar manner"  to me based on their descriptions = gas operated recoil reduction of some kind.  So if it doesn't use spent gasses I'd guess it's ok. 

- Dave
Reading it again, I think you're right. In any event, it seems weird that CMP would push to align this competition with International, then ban the Pardini, given how popular it is.

Brian Mason

Posts : 25
Join date : 2011-06-12
Location : Maryland

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by beeser on 1/7/2015, 4:08 pm

Similar to my comment/question on the ammunition side of the rules change, why does the CMP put limits on the type of guns used and how do they decide which ones are allowed.  Is it just arbitrary?  They apparently allow the Browning Hi-Power but not a 1911 9mm?  I don't get it.

beeser

Posts : 956
Join date : 2014-06-19

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by LenV on 1/7/2015, 4:56 pm

Beeser,
  The 9mm 1911 has never been used by our military as a service pistol. All the other pistols on the list have been used by some military as a service pistol. It's not an arbitrary thing.

Len
avatar
LenV

Posts : 2586
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 67
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by beeser on 1/7/2015, 5:08 pm

OldMaster64 wrote:Beeser,
  The 9mm 1911 has never been used by our military as a service pistol. All the other pistols on the list have been used by some military as a service pistol. It's not an arbitrary thing.

Len
All of the pistols listed on pgs. 35-37 have been used by our military?  I didn't know that.

beeser

Posts : 956
Join date : 2014-06-19

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by C.Perkins on 1/7/2015, 5:24 pm

beeser wrote:
OldMaster64 wrote:Beeser,
  The 9mm 1911 has never been used by our military as a service pistol. All the other pistols on the list have been used by some military as a service pistol. It's not an arbitrary thing.

Len
All of the pistols listed on pgs. 35-37 have been used by our military?  I didn't know that.

Beeser;
By SOME military.
Not OUR military.

Clarence
avatar
C.Perkins

Posts : 725
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 54
Location : Surrounded by pines in Wi.

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by gitkrunk on 1/7/2015, 5:32 pm

so can i use my pardini? i don't know how that thing works ......just know how to make it go bang.
avatar
gitkrunk

Posts : 163
Join date : 2013-01-01
Age : 31
Location : Anchorage,AK

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by DeweyHales on 1/7/2015, 7:36 pm

I'd bet that many of the approved other service pistols have never been used by any militaries. They might have been used by police forces, and it is arbitrary. 

It's all about civilian marksmanship. It should be open to civilian, defensive guns capable of safely firing within the time limits.


Last edited by DeweyHales on 1/7/2015, 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
DeweyHales

Posts : 594
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by james r chapman on 1/7/2015, 7:38 pm

OldMaster64 wrote:Beeser,
  The 9mm 1911 has never been used by our military as a service pistol. All the other pistols on the list have been used by some military as a service pistol. It's not an arbitrary thing.

Len
Hmmmmm....

Brazilian Military 1911 in 9mm
avatar
james r chapman

Posts : 2168
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 68
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by LenV on 1/7/2015, 7:48 pm

The neat thing about the new rules is the open end on pistols that are allowed. If you can make a case for any pistol all you have to do is send them the info. They will keep an updated list of current and new approved pistols on their site. Well that is what it says anyhow. I couldn't think of any military anywhere using a 952 but I will keep looking. Smile
avatar
LenV

Posts : 2586
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 67
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by beeser on 1/7/2015, 8:16 pm

Or the Argentine variant of the 1911 in .22lr ...

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=93

I'll ask again, why do they have these (goofy) rules?  What is the CMP trying to accomplish?

beeser

Posts : 956
Join date : 2014-06-19

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by Rob Kovach on 1/7/2015, 8:35 pm

They are trying to accomplish a broader list of firearms that can be used for the service pistol match without making it a free-for-all.  They also intended for the .45 1911 to be competitive with the 9mm Beretta.  It also appears that they wanted to ensure the .45acp 1911 and 9mm Beretta did not have a disadvantage against the new guns on the list.

Beeser, if they allow 1911s in other calibers, the .38spl and .38 Supers would dominate, and really those were never widely used service pistols.  Accurate 50yd 9mm 1911s are hot rods and making it a free-for-all arms race isn't what CMP is trying to accomplish.

These rules were more thoughtful than others from the NRA.  Try not to get too wrapped up in the why.

P.S. the Argentine Ballester-Molina .22lr wasn't a service pistol.  The High Standard military was used by the military for training purposes but that isn't a "service pistol" either.

I would like to see these rules in effect for a while then see how the participation numbers look before we get too bent out of shape about what should be changed.
avatar
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2696
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 44
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by Jack H on 1/7/2015, 8:48 pm

They can change rules all day long.  But they can not change people to want to travel 2-3 hours to shoot 30 shots.  Or to dedicate 5 hours a week for training and dryfire.  Most 30 shot events will coincide with 270 shot events.  Not to mention the special dedication for traveling 3000 miles to Perry.  I am not holding my breath for a lot of increase in participants.  

Someone had to say it.
avatar
Jack H

Posts : 1308
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by james r chapman on 1/7/2015, 9:04 pm

Well, it might get me travel from s.e. Michigan!

head towards Davis-Bessie and turn right?
avatar
james r chapman

Posts : 2168
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 68
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by Rob Kovach on 1/7/2015, 11:57 pm

Jack H wrote:I am not holding my breath for a lot of increase in participants.  
Want to put money on that?  I predict over 10% increase in reported scores for .22 EIC and Service Pistol over 2014s reported scores.
avatar
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2696
Join date : 2011-06-13
Age : 44
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: The Updated Rules

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum