new guy on the block

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new guy on the block

Post by sourbeer on 1/15/2015, 9:21 am

Joined my 2 sons up for 4h indoor shooting this winter.  Got there and they were so full that they did not have a gun for my kids to shoot regularly.  With very little time/research, I went out and got a Ruger mark III "hunter".  Took it to the range with some different types of ammo that we had and shot it a little before sending them off to there weekly "match" with it.  I am not an accomplished bullseye shooter or an accurate handgun shooter and the only competition that I have done with a handgun has been 3 gun or USPSA style matches that were more about speed than accuracy but with some rough accuracy components.  

Watching the boys compete and talking to some of the instructors, I was invited to join for the regular weekly league night.  So, last night I went out and joined them with my box stock mark III.  Had a good time for sure but need to do something about the "hunter" sights on the gun, and the trigger is not conducive to accuracy work.  I don't recall my aggregate score but was very happy with my first slow fire target with a score of 82.  Better than I had hoped for and I look forward to going back.  I believe that everybody else on the line had optics of some type, red dot scopes and the like.  I'm likely to just upgrade the sights for now to something better for now.  I may try to find a set of take-off sights from a target model if I can, as they have to be better than the rear V notch with fiber front sight on the "hunter" model.  And the trigger will need some love for sure, I may drop in the Volqartsen parts myself when I can find some time.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by Dave C. on 1/15/2015, 12:56 pm

Shot my stock MII into mid expert class.
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Re: new guy on the block

Post by Al on 1/15/2015, 3:24 pm

15 years ago, I began with a MKII which got me up into the high expert level.  Then decided I needed to use a Hi Standard to duplicate the 1911 grip angle (and they have such great triggers) and get me that few extra points to add to the agg to get to Master.  Got frustrated with not shooting them as well as the MKII's.  Always had a higher x count but lower score by a few points.  Also tried a friends S&W 41, that just didn't feel right and I didn't shoot well at all.

So I went back to the Ruger.  Last 6-8 months I've been trying to shoot the Marvel, exclusively.  Fair score, but not nearly the Ruger scores, x ring wise or overall.  Last match I used the marvel again.  I got so frustrated with my slow fires I changed over to my "backup" MKII.  I immediately jumped 8 points.  I've experimented enough for my satisfaction.  My intention is to try to get back to the level I was, and quit trying to blame the equipment.  My Rugers run with anything from cheap bulk ammo to Lapua & Tenex and shoot any decent target ammo inside the x-ring at 50 yards.  Anything outside the x is the shooter not the ammo or equipment.

Moral of the story, there's nothing wrong with the Ruger, from my standpoint anyhow.


Allen

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by Guest on 1/15/2015, 8:04 pm

Shooting an 82 on slow fire without much practice is a great score.  I had a Mark III and the drop in trigger did not work well.  Had a trigger job done and it was like night and day.  The hard part is finding the right gunsmith.  Ask other bullseye shooters on whom they recommend.  I was lucky.

Chip


Last edited by ChipEck on 2/2/2015, 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by Fire Escape on 1/15/2015, 9:09 pm

The sight improvement is an easy change. You can get the target front sight and a blade for the rear with a square notch rather than the 'V' right from Ruger for pretty low $$. I did that on a friends Hunter last year and the improvement was dramatic. For a really good trigger job you will need a gunsmith but in the short term a Volquartsen kit can be a big improvement over stock. Not very hard to install and you might want to smooth out a few rough spots on the stamped parts while you are in there. Just don't expect miracles or try and adjust things down to really tight tolerances (don't ask how I learned that). Go out and have fun, it's been working for me for a couple of seasons now.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by sourbeer on 1/16/2015, 9:59 am

I ordered parts from Clark to rework the trigger and use the Mark II parts to get rid of the magazine disconnect.  I am new to the area and do not know who may be able to work on it other than me right now.  Through the winter, I will need to not send it away to get worked on as it will need to be functional weekly.  I will likely drop in the parts and do some polishing on my own to try to get some improvement.  I also ordered a front target sight (Ruger take off) that Clark's had but they did not have any rear sight.  Where might i get a rear blade that will work with my existing sight?  Otherwise, I will likely resort to replacing the entire rear sight to get rid of the V.  

With the sights and trigger worked, I know that a lot of trigger time will be necessary before any other mods will be beneficial.  The gun seems plenty accurate.  

Any specific advice on the trigger work, what areas or pitfalls to avoid would be appreciated.  I've seen a couple youtube videos of the assembly process.  I almost went with the VQ accurizing kit but went the Clark route and have the parts on the way.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by rfmiller on 1/16/2015, 2:19 pm

I shoot a Mark III hunter also.  I'm using a red dot sight (bad eyes) but had previously replaced the stock sights with Volquartsen models, quite an improvement.  The man who shoots next to me in our indoor league regularly shoots a 100- multi x in timed fire with his stock Mark II with the Volquartsen grips; otherwise unaltered.  Don't let anyone tell you they aren't good guns.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by james r chapman on 1/16/2015, 4:22 pm

sourbeer wrote:t
Any specific advice on the trigger work, what areas or pitfalls to avoid would be appreciated.  I've seen a couple youtube videos of the assembly process.  I almost went with the VQ accurizing kit but went the Clark route and have the parts on the way.

I found this site to be extremely helpful when I reworked my Mark III. look around for videos and extremely descriptive methods to fix yours up.

http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/
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Re: new guy on the block

Post by Fire Escape on 1/17/2015, 9:40 am

This:

http://shopruger.com/MR05901-MK-I-II-MK-III-Target-Sq-Notch-Rear-Sight-Blade/productinfo/61037/

Is what you need. It unfortunately shows as out of stock but they come and go in stock regularly. I think that a LOT of people are ordering them to change out the 'dreadful' wide "V" that Ruger has been using on all their Hunter models, and that has affected their having any in stock.
They have plenty of the Hunter style sights available but I doubt they would put you in contact with anyone who bought them to see if they were willing to sell their old ones. Perhaps some shops or gunsmiths local to you have 'upgraded' to Hunter sights and have the old parts.
As I recall, it was a month or so of checking before I found the part 'in stock' at Shop Ruger and ordered it. Good Luck!

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by sourbeer on 2/2/2015, 3:56 pm

Thanks for all of the feedback.  I have just received a volqartsen rear sight along with a target model front sight to update the Hunter.  I also got the VQ accurizing kit for a Mark II so that I can remove the magazine disconnect along with upgrading the sear, trigger and hammer.  Hope to get all of this done this week so that I can shoot next week.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by Fire Escape on 2/2/2015, 8:57 pm

Glad to hear that you found the needed parts. As I cautioned earlier, don't get too carried away with trying to adjust the Volquartsen to have minimal pre and over travel. I learned the hard way, my tightly adjusted trigger was just fine at home while dry firing but once some ammo was used and it was not surgically clean it turned into a release trigger. I know that they have proven useful for shot gunners trying to break a flinch habit but having a trigger that fires when you stop squeezing was not the key to Bullseye success for me!

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by CR10X on 2/3/2015, 7:13 am

Please consider not removing the magazine disconnect if you are planning on shooting NRA Conventional "Bullseye" matches. It would probably be considered removal of a safety device. Thank you.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by sourbeer on 2/3/2015, 9:41 am

Help me understand why having it set up exactly the same as a Mark II would be a bad thing.  I am seeking to understand,  not debating the rules.  It seems as though it is common place for folks to do this mod, correct?  For a pure target pistol, I think that it would be acceptable to do whatever is possible to make the trigger fantastic.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by kc.crawford.7 on 2/3/2015, 11:40 am

Sourbeer, while I understand your thought the NRA doesn't care.  If you disable a manufacturers safety and you're caught your gun and score will be disqualified.  Period end of subject.  I have had to give many people their guns back because a safety didn't work.  Would not pass a pre-fire inspection.
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Re: new guy on the block

Post by sourbeer on 2/3/2015, 12:29 pm

Good to know.  Seems dumb, even though I understand the intent.  I guess I will take my chances as I fully intend to update my components.  Not sure that I intend to do sanctioned events, and even more discouraged to hear that they would disqualify somebody for modifications of this type.  Especially if you are able to use the components from a Mark II, to make it the same as the guy next to you using a Mark II.  I've competed in some rifle disciplines with a rifle that had no safety, none at all.  It was purely a target rifle with a target trigger, and not a single rifle on the line that I was aware of was equipped with a safety.  For now, the local events that I will participate in are not sanctioned and I do not have plans to travel to other events at this time.  It really is a way for me to shoot through the winter, and I like tinkering with my gun to make it as competitive as possible.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by dronning on 2/3/2015, 1:11 pm

Sourbeer, rules is rules but I think you are on the right track, do your mods and shoot your MarkIII and have fun.  You now know that if you do shoot a sanctioned match you may have a problem but not likely unless you are winning your class or breaking records.  As you improve you will most likely upgrade your gun so keep this info in mind.

CMP EIC .22 matches are a very strict and your gun will be disqualified at the trigger weigh in.
- Dave
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Re: new guy on the block

Post by sourbeer on 2/3/2015, 5:33 pm

Thanks for the information.  I'll be sure to keep the bag of parts so that I can revert if necessary.  I have no idea what CMP EIC matches are so I am likely in good shape there.  I will shoot casually through the winter, plink some with the kids and go from there.  If I ever get serious about it, you are correct in that I will likely do whatever is necessary to be competitive with my rig.  I just hate lousy triggers and I know that this one has got to get better.  

Also, off topic but I like your picture.  I rode a R1200GS for many miles in a short period.  Was probably the best bike I ever owned, certainly one of the most comfortable for me on long rides.  I had a bunch of mods done to extend the range and add comfort for long distance riding.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by Rob Kovach on 2/3/2015, 11:16 pm

Sourbeer,

Even if you never "get serious" you HAVE to try an outdoor bullseye match this summer.  It's SO much fun, you just don't know what you are missing.

Outdoor matches are for both the serious and the not-so-serious shooters.  It's usually more fun for the not-so-serious shooters.
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Re: new guy on the block

Post by sourbeer on 2/4/2015, 10:53 am

I'm not sure there are any local outdoor bullseye matches but I will check and see.  I currently shoot USPSA outdoor matches, along with a Skeet league.  Not sure I have the bandwidth to add another discipline outside of the winter league that I'm attempting to attend when I am not traveling.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by LenV on 2/4/2015, 11:43 am

There is a "sticky" in the Announcement section that has a great map of every known range that has matches.
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Re: new guy on the block

Post by Rob Kovach on 2/4/2015, 9:33 pm

You can use this website to find an outdoor bullseye match:
http://findnra.nra.org/
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Re: new guy on the block

Post by Ghillieman on 2/5/2015, 3:17 am

Ruger sells an optic mount for that pistol, once you have that installed its just a decision on which optic you want. I had a MKII several years ago and they are easy to do a good trigger job on. You will need to be able to weigh the trigger as the rules state that for .22 pistol matches the trigger must lift a 2 pound weight. Its real simple, start by clearing and disassembling the pistol. Square the sear with an Arkansas stone then polish. Remove some height of the sear notch on the hammer with the Arkansas stone then polish. Reassemble and test for trigger weight, function, and safety. You have to have all three for the matches. Stop at about 2.5 pounds as you will loose a little bit of pull weight once the sharp edges wear off.
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Re: new guy on the block

Post by marlin1881 on 2/5/2015, 8:54 am

Dan is right in that MK2 triggers are reasonably straightforward to clean up well.  Be careful in reducing the hammer engagement surface as the safety fully engages the sear, but there is some play in that engagement.  Bottom line is that it looks like there's a possibility of the pistol firing while the safety is ON, depending on  how much extra room there is in the safety notch with the sear, and how long the hammer hook is in retaining the sear.  Hard to describe in words, but look closely at the safety notch and sear engagement when it's assembled in the gripframe.  You'll see the sear move against the hammer hook.  Make sure it's not too far.

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Re: new guy on the block

Post by sourbeer on 2/6/2015, 9:21 am

Swapped out all of the VQ parts for a Mark II into the Mark III and the improvement is dramatic.  Will hope to shoot it this weekend.  Still have to swap out the sights, I've got a sight pusher but it is designed for a square slide so I will have to tinker with it a little to swap out the rear v notch sight with the VQ target sight.  Also got a front target sight that looks lower than than the factory fiber optic front, so I'm not sure it will work.  May have to find a taller front target style sight to work with the VQ rear.

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Surprised no one else mentioned Roddy Toyota trigger job

Post by Motorcycle_dan on 2/12/2015, 9:56 am

For less than the cost of the VQ parts he can massage your Mk III into a beautiful trigger an it stays legal for inspection purposes.  I can't praise his work enough.  With a Ruger since the serial number is in the upper, you can remove the barrel and receiver, just send him the grip frame.  He does the trigger and sends it back US mail.

By far the best way to go on a Ruger trigger.  PM me and I'll share his address.
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