USMC Pistol Team workbook

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USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by kohlerpartsgod on Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:41 pm

hello, wondering if anyone has used this manual. Was it worthwhile? I am struggling with my 45 scores and was thinking about giving this a try. Thanks.

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by Ed Hall on Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:48 pm

It's the document we use for the basis of our Air Force Team training, so we believe in its value.  It will take you to 2600 if you put in the work.

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:31 pm

The head of USNST also uses it to help shooters.  I'm still waiting to hit 2600 though Wink

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by Rob Kovach on Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:49 pm

I shot my first cleaned target using the drills in the book.  It's helpful.

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by desben on Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:29 am

I had looked at it when I first started, and quickly found it was useless on its own. Take the first 3 exercises for example:

1. Blank target, 5.5" group.
2. Black bull, 5.5" group.
3. Black bull, 3.36" group.

1 & 2 were a breeze, but then I was supposed to cut my groups by 2" for exercise 3, and no instructions were given on how to do that... Without a coach to help you, you're stuck.

So on its own, it's not terribly useful I found. It needs to be combined with a good marksmanship guide that will offer alternative drills, or a coach...

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:06 pm

I'm wondering if you are looking at the same USMC workbook that we were?

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by jmdavis on Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:20 pm

Exercise 3. 

.22 CALIBER PISTOL: BASIC MARKSMANSHIP TEST

PURPOSE: TO PROVE TO THE MARKSMAN THAT HE/SHE CAN UPON DEMAND PRODUCE 10'S AT 25 YDS. TO BE A WINNER YOU MUST SHOOT 100'S AT THE 25-YARD LINE.

TASK DESCRIPTION: FIRE AT A STANDARD 25 YARD TARGET, NO TIME LIMIT. SHOOT AS MANY ROUNDS AS NECESSARY TO OBTAIN 10 SHOTS IN THE 10 RING. DO NOT REPAIR UNTIL TEN 10'S ARE PRESENT. REPAIR TARGET AND POST A NEW REPAIR CENTER. REPEAT EXERCISE UNTIL DIFFICULTY LEVEL MASTERED.

STANDARD:
1. GROUP SIZE: 10 RING
2. TIME LIMIT: UNLIMITED
3. TEST CONDITIONS: ASSIGNED COACH WILL WATCH AND EVALUATE
4. DIFFICULTY LEVEL: TWO CONSECUTIVE
SHOTS IN THE 10 RING. TARGETS WITH FIRST 10 SHOTS IN 10 RING. 


Is it difficult, yes, but it is not impossible and alot of shooters spend quite some time working on that one exercise. It is also not meant to be done in a vacuum. While this is happening you are also dryfiring, working on trigger control, stance breathing, etc.

You can also go back an work on the first two exercises to shrink your groups.

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by robert84010 on Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:48 pm

desben wrote:I had looked at it when I first started, and quickly found it was useless on its own. Take the first 3 exercises for example:

1. Blank target, 5.5" group.
2. Black bull, 5.5" group.
3. Black bull, 3.36" group.

1 & 2 were a breeze, but then I was supposed to cut my groups by 2" for exercise 3, and no instructions were given on how to do that... Without a coach to help you, you're stuck.

So on its own, it's not terribly useful I found. It needs to be combined with a good marksmanship guide that will offer alternative drills, or a coach...
You are right but it was never meant to be a stand alone guide. The shooters that work from the book are summer team shooters so they have already shown good proficiency in competition.  They had the basic fundamentals in boot camp and then worked on them enough to make the team. They have had to shoot their way onto the team for the summer.
I found the book to be an excellent guide. I was lucky enough to train with and get to know the 1992 Champion, he was a summer shooter in 1989 with Zins and he broke HM before Perry as a summer shooter. He pointed out the amount of blank pages is there for a very significant reason. WRITE DOWN WHAT WORKS and build a process. He said a big part of their program is talking about what works with their teammates, then  form your shot process and stick to it. when you prove something works better, in training, then install it into your process. I bet he could still recite what his process was that he used even today.
Another big part of his approach and a big part of the book is goal setting. He said every time you go to the range you need to set a challenging, but obtainable, goal. The book is good because it gives you goals, but you can make others. Reaching goals is a huge confidence booster, along the lines of "With Winning in Mind" and as you reach goal after goal it should translate in smaller and smaller groups. He said he never was taught to shoot for scores, they just focused on groups, let the score take care of itself. I believe he eventually broke 2670 which is not bad for a group shooter!

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:22 pm

If anyone cannot find the workbook it is on Zins site
http://www.brianzins.com/training/

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by desben on Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:20 am

To answer Rob, yes, I'm fairly certain we're looking at the same guide. I describe exercise #3 as a 3.36" group, which is the size of a B-8 ten-ring. It summarizes the full exercise as posted by jmdavis.

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by Rob Kovach on Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:46 am

So what was so hard about exercise #3?  Smile

I think the logic behind #3 is you have to keep shooting until 10 tens are present.  When I started, I would get 20+ shots before I could replace my target.  Then 12, then cleans...
be never replacing the target until 10 tens are present, it teaches you that you are capable of shooting 10 tens on one target.

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by LateBoomer on Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:45 pm

I'm doing the service pistol portion right now.  400 Rounds in and I'm still haven't shot 20 consecutive shots in a 5.5" group.  The first time i shot 7, then 11... next 18.. Then 19.  Next time at the range and I'm gonna turn that darn page!!!

Everything is made better with quality coaching.  But the book alone helps me progress faster than just shooting in leagues week over week.

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by Fly'nBuff on Tue May 19, 2015 10:31 pm

desben wrote:I describe exercise #3 as a 3.36" group, which is the size of a B-8 ten-ring.
Not to derail, but thank you for this post in particular.  While not a new shooter, I'm new to bullseye.  I haven't shot any matches and have been practicing in a vacuum with the "modified" workbook. I'm at excercise #3, but I've been using a B-16 instead of a B-8. I'm disappointed in myself, as I value attention to detail.  On the bright side, I'm a whole lot closer to 3.36" than I am to 1.51"!

Thanks to all - Chad


Last edited by Fly'nBuff on Wed May 20, 2015 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correction)

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

Post by james r chapman on Wed May 20, 2015 5:34 am

just think how you'll feel when you hit that 1.51", lol

Smile

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Re: USMC Pistol Team workbook

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