Target holes

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Target holes

Post by djm026 on 2/14/2015, 10:20 pm

I shoot my 45 and it doesn't make a clean hole at all in the paper. 

I use 185 g bullets with 3.6 bullseye 
Anybody else have this problem?
It's so bad it's very hard to score the target.

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Re: Target holes

Post by dronning on 2/14/2015, 10:44 pm

I shoot 185gr LSWC and they look like a paper punch.  If you are shooting a JHP then get a scoring overlay it will help you score those tattered holes.

The target backer makes a difference too.

If your bullet is tumbling then you have other issues.

http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Scoring-overlay__SCORINGOVER.aspx

- Dave
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Re: Target holes

Post by LenV on 2/14/2015, 10:45 pm

Round nose bullets can be hard to score as they rarely leave a nice clean hole. If possible you could switch to a SWC or get yourself some of these.

http://www.bullseyegear.com/bullseyepistol/product.php?productid=112&cat=7&page=1

 Dave beat me to it. But here is another source.
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Re: Target holes

Post by GrumpyOldMan on 2/14/2015, 10:54 pm

Real targets or self-printed on regular copy paper?

Makes a HUGE difference at standard pistol speeds without a WC or SWC shoulder.

Now if your current 185 IS a SWC (including those MC ones that sorta swoop from the meplat then out to full diameter to make a not so distinct shoulder, then we need more information. But as stated above, backers help make cleanER holes with pistol rounds.

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Re: Target holes

Post by Deerspy on 2/15/2015, 11:27 am

and there are two different type of material that targets are made from one is a lighter paper that does not cut as clean of holes and one is what is called tag paper which with the right backer makes easer scoring the tag targets cost a lot more that the paper ones.

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Re: Target holes

Post by DonBrummer on 2/15/2015, 12:32 pm

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Re: Target holes

Post by Ghillieman on 2/15/2015, 12:44 pm

Increase your velocity.
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Re: Target holes

Post by djm026 on 2/15/2015, 4:16 pm

I'm shooting 185 swc made by mastercast bullet co..
When I shoot the 200 swc by same co they punch much nicer hole.
Problem is I'm stocked up with 6,000 185s

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Re: Target holes

Post by Virgil Kane on 2/15/2015, 4:40 pm

Ghillieman wrote:Increase your velocity.


This.

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Re: Target holes

Post by LenV on 2/15/2015, 4:50 pm

I load my 185 L-SWC with 4.2 gr Bullseye. Still mild recoil and nice holes. So..

+2
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Re: Target holes

Post by Virgil Kane on 2/15/2015, 5:05 pm

OldMaster65 wrote:I load my 185 L-SWC with 4.2 gr Bullseye. Still mild recoil and nice holes. So..

+2


I shoot these button nose with the same 4.2 of BE load as OldMaster64 and they cut clean holes.


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Re: Target holes

Post by GrumpyOldMan on 2/15/2015, 11:38 pm

djm026 wrote:I'm shooting 185 swc made by mastercast bullet co..
When I shoot the 200 swc by same co they punch much nicer hole.
Problem is I'm stocked up with 6,000 185s
Well, sounds like not really a bullet problem then. You still haven't told us about your paper though.

Velocity helps, but it's far, far better to have a scoring problem with 6,000 bullets in hand than, say, an accuracy problem that's easy to score with nice holes. Do you know if your 200 SWCs are going the same speed or maybe faster???

If that truly IS *the load* for you, then use spray glue like the expensive but good 3M stuff to stick your targets to a nice courrogated cardboard backer and live with it. If you are chewing up the 10 & X rings enough, you might have to put a layer of stiff cardstock or discarded Manila folder paper over the black before gluing down the next repair center.  That way, even if the extra resistance still doesn't give a clean hole, you will at least have a good skidmark on the hanging tag of paper you need to flip back to the target plane to score.

This will most likely work even if the targets are printed on long-fiber regular hard calendared paper which is great for documents but sucky for pistol targets. The thicker tagboard target paper has some stiffness to resist tearing, but uses short fibers and less aggressive binders. The thin target paper is the same stuff, just thinner and usually used IME on repair centers because those are usually backed up by stiff enough tagboard and often cardboard behind that.

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Re: Target holes

Post by djm026 on 2/16/2015, 7:19 am

I loaded the 185 bullets and the 200 s with the same powder 3.6 of bullseye. 
Targets are nra approved targets not sure on the name on the targets will have to check that. 
I would think that the 200 g bullet would be slower using the same 3.6 of bullseye powered. 
I called the guy who supplies me with the bullets to see if anyone else is having this problem..

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Re: Target holes

Post by dronning on 2/16/2015, 8:11 am

djm026 wrote:I loaded the 185 bullets and the 200 s with the same powder 3.6 of bullseye. 
Targets are nra approved targets not sure on the name on the targets will have to check that. 
I would think that the 200 g bullet would be slower using the same 3.6 of bullseye powered. 
I called the guy who supplies me with the bullets to see if anyone else is having this problem..


Same charge won't necessarily be slower on the heavier bullet.  Using a lighter bullet creates less chamber pressure and may actually be running slower, sometimes more then you think (depends a lot on the bullet shape/style).  To maintain the same speed, more often than not, when you go down in bullet weight you have to increase the charge .  There are other factors too like how far are the 2 different bullets seat into the case etc..

3.6 seems light, 2 HM shooters that I shoot with both run 3.8 in their LSWC 185's for the short line and they say that is the edge for their guns and accuracy (maybe not for yours?).  They also increase the charge for the long line, but I think they both run a 185 JHP for the long line.

- Dave


Last edited by dronning on 2/16/2015, 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarity)
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Re: Target holes

Post by djm026 on 2/16/2015, 11:23 am

I will give this a try and see if that makes a difference.
If not he said he will exchange them for 200 swc.

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Re: Target holes

Post by GrumpyOldMan on 2/16/2015, 1:07 pm

djm026 wrote:I will give this a try and see if that makes a difference.
If not he said he will exchange them for 200 swc.
So, no accuracy difference between the two bullets with that charge? IF so, sounds reasonable if the recoil with 200s is still okay for your tastes.

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Re: Target holes

Post by djm026 on 2/16/2015, 1:19 pm

No accuracy difference between the two they both are all in the black for me. Just hard to score the 185 swc is my only complant.

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Re: Target holes

Post by djm026 on 3/5/2015, 4:15 pm

Targets are NRA TARGETS tried 4.2 bullseye and still not very nice hole. 
Tried some rifle targets that we have at range they are Kruger and the 185swc with 3.6 bullseye cuts clean hole in targets.

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Re: Target holes

Post by GrumpyOldMan on 3/5/2015, 4:29 pm

Is the Kruger paper noticeably thicker than the "NRA TARGETS" stuff? Normally and every time I've seen them, official NRA targets include a separate name of the printer and a license number. Gotta protect that copyright, ya know.

Now I'm wondering if your pistol targets are "outlaw" units printed on communications-grade paper instead of the easy-hole target varieties.

Paper problem, not your bullets or loads, AFAIC.

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Re: Target holes

Post by djm026 on 3/5/2015, 6:42 pm

Where do you guys buy your targets?
And what brand.

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Re: Target holes

Post by Deerspy on 3/5/2015, 7:47 pm

I get mine from american target they have a web sight to look at but you have to call them to order they have two different kind of paper tag and paper the tag will make scoring easier but cost more i just use the paper ones for practice .

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Re: Target holes

Post by farmboy on 3/5/2015, 9:33 pm

+1 on American. Nice folks to deal with
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Re: Target holes

Post by djm026 on 3/6/2015, 4:23 am

Ok thanks for your help. 
Our club buys American also I bet they are the cheaper targets. Didn't know there was to grades.

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Re: Target holes

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/6/2015, 7:31 am

We have a lot of specialty paper manufacturing in Wisconsin, and we are finding that much of that work is moving to China for lower labor cost and for China's lack of environmental regulations.

I've heard rumors that at least 1 US target manufacturer has lost their supplier for target stock.  In this case the manufacturer just shut down the line--they don't intend to move that line elsewhere, they just shut it down.

Let's hope another specialty paper maker sees enough profit in making the raw product...
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Re: Target holes

Post by GrumpyOldMan on 3/6/2015, 9:58 am

Target "tagboard" is about as thick as heavier grade-school "construction paper" but rolled a little more densely, which I know as being "calendared". the process might be called something different any more.

Target "paper" is about the same weight (WAY approximately) as 20-lb copier paper, but less dense, not as hard, and maybe physically a tiny bit thicker.

I have home/office printed targets on cream- and buff-colored construction paper a few times, with great results.

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Re: Target holes

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