Alibi procedures

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Alibi procedures

Post by xman on Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Having never had an alibi in a match I have some questions. Say I get off 3 rounds in TF or RF and I get a stove pipe.

The range staff inspect my pistol and approve an alibi for me. At the completion of the TF or RF stage in question I get my alibi string..correct? I load a full five rounds, shoot and score only the lower 10 shots..correct?

Also is it worth calling for an alibi in SF if time in not about to expire? I know one has 10 minutes to shoot so clearing a  FTL, FTF or FTE is not an issue unless time is to expire shortly (I do use a timer at the bench).


Last edited by xman on Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : missed typed)

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by CR10X on Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:30 am

I guess you could, but why would you take the lowest 10 for a slow fire when you can just get additional time or change pistols?  I can't really think of situation where I would ask for a refire, unless it was a range alibi for some reason.  You don't have to refire when the pistol is disabled, you can simply continue the string with the remaining time as far as I know. 

10.9 Procedure in Case of Defective Cartridge, Disabled Pistol in slow fire - If a cartridge fails to fire or a pistol fails to function in slow fire the competitor may replace the unfired cartridge or clear the jam and continue firing. Additional time may be allowed any competitor, equal to the time lost because of the defective cartridge, disabled pistol or malfunction, if the Range Officer has been notified at the time of the malfunction. (For refiring privileges 21 see Rule 9.14). It is not required that the Range Officer attempt to fire a cartridge before it is declared defective. In case of malfunction where a pistol or revolver is disabled and must be replaced requiring a refire, the competitor will call the Range Officer.

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by mspingeld on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:26 am

Wobbley, I agree 100%!, even one can be distracting and cost points but it's part of the sport and it happens to everyone eventually. It's important, especially for the beginner (like me), to take it in stride and continue the match and later, at home, figure out why it happened and what steps are necessary to avoid it in future matches.

For the sake of conversation and an understanding of the rules, I'd still like to know. I'm sticking with 15 until someone corrects me.

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by Froneck on Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:37 am

I have never seen an Alibi string fired in slow fire, I assume it's possible in that some shooters take just about the full 10 minutes. It would be possible in a situation where as 9 shots were fired in 9 minutes and the shooter taking time to shoot the last shot pulled the trigger at 9 minuets and 40 seconds and the round failed to fire! I suppose he would then shot another 10 shots at the target and scored the lowest 10 of the 19 unless he's given 5 minutes but if it were some place like Camp Perry the target turning timer is set to 10 minutes. One has to remember that an Alibi has to do with gun or ammo malfunction. Any other malfunction will not be charged to the competitor such as a target falling out of the frame, 11 hits on the target or a range officer not responding to a Not Ready call by the shooter. If that happens  the shooter simply need to lower the gun and inform the range officer when the Call for Alibis is made. And if during the Alibi string that same shooter does get an Alibi he will be allowed to shot another string if he hasn't use the one alibi allowed.
 However if someone did use the full 15 allowed I would think that there will soon be a gunsmith with a gun in a strange place! A 2 cheek holster??

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by Rob Kovach on Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:33 pm

Even if I was in the 9:40 scenario above, I would probably look at my timer, signal to the Range officer and take the 20 seconds extra instead of taking the low 10 in a refire string.

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by Froneck on Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:55 pm

If you need you remove the possibly bad round, reload and attempt to shoot rushing you will probably do worse than the low ten. There will be no need to signal the Range Officer and will probably lessen the time you have. The Range Officer can do nothing at that time anyway. It probably will be in your best interest to try to fire the shot and if it too will not fire disable the gun and shoot the back-up in the alibi.

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by LenV on Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:34 pm

I think I have it now. I didn't think 2 alibis were allowed in a NMC probably because I have never seen one. So, to sum up what I have learned in the last two days. You may have 15 alibis in a 2700. You may shoot 12 different pistols in the 2700 (unless some break and you could shoot more). You can have 2 alibis in a EIC match as long as 1 of them is in slowfire.

Thanks, Len

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by Ed Hall on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:35 am

Interesting!  First a good post by Cecil on definitions and then no one pointing out that a glossary does exist in the rule book on pages 61 and 62.  The rule book does change, often.  A casual reviewer would have noticed.  They would also notice that "alibi" is the first entry in the glossary, although that is the only place it appears.  Cecil probably was testing us, but I was not.

As to 15 refires, there can also be range alibis due to all sorts of things.  That would add to that number.  There used to be something in the rule book about whether the shooter caused a range alibi, which would limit their right to a refire, but I can't find it.  Another change?

Note that stopping the clock and then continuing is not actually a refire.  It is a continuation of fire.  If your gun breaks during Slow Fire, it doesn't incur a refire.  You simply continue using the remaining time from your original target, unless something happened to your original.

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by CR10X on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:25 pm

Darn it Ed, how are we going to get people to read the complete rules if you keep pointing these things out?  Anyway, what I was trying to say was that did not have a "complete" glossary.  Thanks for the shoutout.  Hope to see you at perry again this year.


Last edited by CR10X on Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by Ed Hall on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:57 pm

Always great to to see you Cecil.  I wish I could get the AF Team to one of your matches again, but it just doesn't work out.  Looking forward to seeing you as well.

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by jwax on Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:36 am

May I offer a new scenario to see how this would be scored? In Rapid Fire, shooter shoots the first string OK, but in the second string, he gets no shots off. Refire is allowed, and he then fires all 5 shots.
10 holes in target, are all 10 scored?

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by dronning on Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:50 am

jwax wrote:May I offer a new scenario to see how this would be scored? In Rapid Fire, shooter shoots the first string OK, but in the second string, he gets no shots off. Refire is allowed, and he then fires all 5 shots.
10 holes in target, are all 10 scored?
Yes

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by Froneck on Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:50 am

Simply put, you score the low 10! If there is only 10 shots and it was an allowed alibi then score the 10! Happens often, range officer does not hear the shooter call out not ready he can just stand back and shoot with the alibi shooters, if he does then have an allowed alibi he will be allowed to shoot an alibi string. Or the  first round fails to fire, possibly no powder in a reload, remove the bullet from the barrel and shoot the alibi string. Range officer will call out the number of shots fired, if 10 then score the 10. However if the range offices said 11 shots were fired and there is only 10 holes, one will be counted as a miss and you score the low 9.


Last edited by Froneck on Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:21 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Alibi procedures

Post by CR10X on Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:51 am

Yes. 5+0+5 on refire = 10 shots to be scored. If there are 9 holes in the target the there will be a miss recorded on the scorecard.

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Re: Alibi procedures

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