Classification Question for the Old Guys

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Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by Axehandle on 2/24/2015, 9:05 am

Started competing in late '78.   There was no high master classification.  At the big registered matches the 2600 club shooters would be in a class above the masters.   I remember talk about how, years before, the NRA had raised the average scores for classifications.  At that point lot of people who carried master classifications were not 95% shooters.   When did this happen?  What were the old percentages for each classification?

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Re: Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by Froneck on 2/25/2015, 6:51 am

Though I wasn't involved since it was before my shooting time the old classification I think but my memory is a bit vague as one time I did know exactly what the score was. (I managed to get a complete set of every NRA Rifleman back to 1923 except 1943) 90% Master, 85% Expert, 80% Sharpshooter and below 80% Marksman. Not sure when but the Classification were up graded 5% (That is % of perfect score) to 95% MA.,90% EX., 85% SS., and below 85% Marksman. I'm told the Masters were given the opportunity to accept Lifetime Master or be down graded to Expert. A few old shooting buddies of mine took the down grade and never made it back up to Master. One did take lifetime Master. Sometime in the late 1990's High Master was added 97%. I was also told there was a similar change long time ago but it involved making the target rings smaller, possibly that is when they added the X ring.

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Re: Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by BE Mike on 2/25/2015, 8:55 am

IIRC the master class cutoff was moved up from 90% to 95% in the early 70's. I had just started shooting bullseye.
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Re: Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by LenV on 2/25/2015, 10:00 am

I know it was 95% in 1973. You had to shoot double hardball (Army) until you broke 2565 then you could play with the wad guns. Then shooting the Master scores got a lot easier.
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Re: Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by Froneck on 2/25/2015, 10:09 am

Army now shoots the 9mm and because of the rules change for ECI the AMU will be using reduced loads with hollow point bullets

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Re: Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by Axehandle on 2/25/2015, 11:52 am

I was just talking to Terry Labbe about this yesterday.  All these CMP EIC changes don't modify the regulations that drive the services EIC stuff.   The Services can be sticky about their rules.   Just back in the 80s and early 90s the Army could earn X (seems like it was 14) leg points in the military combat matches.  At that point in time the Air Force didn't recognize any combat points.   Any of you pure civilian guys ever had any EIC points awarded and recognized by the CMP for a combat leg?

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Re: Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by Froneck on 2/25/2015, 1:01 pm

I don't know, but can find out. I'll bet it's true because since the Distinguished medal is allowed to be worn on the Uniform getting the Medal would be rather difficult for those not in the AMU. I'm told back in the 60's Kennedy was mad at the NRA for stopping some kind of gun legislation and removed support from Camp Perry. Prior to that a lot of service members shot there to get Distinguished. Later more support was removed, I remember about half the EIC shooters were military. There was also supposed to be a Commanders match held at various military bases that was ended. I'm told that the reason why it's called the Leg Match is that points had to be earned at each leg, Perry was one and Commanders match the other. First the Command match was removed from the requirement then Perry was removed not to long ago!

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Re: Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by Wobbley on 2/25/2015, 6:34 pm

When I was shooting for rifle legs, the service and reserve personnel (including National Guard) could only earn so many legs at civilian (DCM) leg matches.  The rest had to be earned at service matches (FLT, FORCECOM, ALL ARMY, Perry) and the like). Some shooters may have been able to substitute a civilian match,  it only if their service allowed it.  This was in the 1980s.

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Re: Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by 79fordext on 2/25/2015, 6:42 pm

Army personnel may substitute two matches per year after All Army, this includes Reserve and ARNG. We are only allowed 14 civilian points, and we have to have a national leg.
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Re: Classification Question for the Old Guys

Post by Colt711 on 3/2/2015, 7:19 pm

Froneck wrote:Though I wasn't involved since it was before my shooting time the old classification I think but my memory is a bit vague as one time I did know exactly what the score was. (I managed to get a complete set of every NRA Rifleman back to 1923 except 1943) 90% Master, 85% Expert, 80% Sharpshooter and below 80% Marksman. Not sure when but the Classification were up graded 5% (That is % of perfect score) to 95% MA.,90% EX., 85% SS., and below 85% Marksman. I'm told the Masters were given the opportunity to accept Lifetime Master or be down graded to Expert. A few old shooting buddies of mine took the down grade and never made it back up to Master. One did take lifetime Master. Sometime in the late 1990's High Master was added 97%. I was also told there was a similar change long time ago but it involved making the target rings smaller, possibly that is when they added the X ring.

I started BE in '68. Master class was 91% not 90%. Other classes were 5% increments as posted. The 1st Match bulletins I saw stated: "2600 shooters must declare". Master class was quite large then. Was part of the thinking that experience counted when the classes were devised? Or were revolvers holding aggs down except for the very top shooters? I recall working Camp Perry as a young Highway Patrolman in '65 & '66 and seeing a number of revolvers in use on the line yet then. A good case could have been made for those numbers considering the universality of 2600 as a goal.

The target change I recall was the 25 yd indoor SF (B16?) which would have not been a big deal due to the number, or lack of, 25 yd indoor ranges. The rings were reduced slightly and the X ring was added. This was likely in the 90's. I had a few of them until recently. The reason for the change was the "discovery of a calculation error when the target was converted from the 50 yd SF"?

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