Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

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Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by scrum derringer on 3/1/2015, 12:17 pm

Can a roll be done with existing parts to the gun, is it feasible? Reason being, just got a new to me Targetmaster for PPC use, with a lack luster trigger pull. I have gotten accustom to my new Battle Axe kit in my wad gun and would like to replicate it for the PPC gun. The reason why I am asking if it can be done is because the STI targetmaster qualifies as a Distinguished Semi, and it needs to appear stock. If I am incorrect, I will use the Battle axe kit, but my guess is that it would not qualify.  I believe in order to have a good roll trigger, one needs longer hammer hooks, which I am told are only made by a few manufactures. I am not sure if my stock or new from the factory STI hammer would suffice for a base for doing a roll.
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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by Jon Eulette on 3/1/2015, 1:17 pm

Short to medium roll can be done on typical existing parts. Long roll really needs longer hammer hooks.
Jon
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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by robert84010 on 3/1/2015, 1:18 pm

The rules really don't say what is specifically allowed/disallowed regarding hammer styles. My Baer PPC 45 has a commander style hammer and it's probably close to ten years old when the rules were a little more stringent. I guess that Battle Axe is a big departure from common hammers though. I've heard some bad stories about the rules committee at the Police Nat's so I can see why you would not want to use something too different.

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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by Steve B on 3/1/2015, 3:26 pm

My gunsmith did a beautiful long roll on my MCP with it's stock .018-.020 hammer hooks.  I'd really like to hear how well that targetmaster shoots for you.  Is it a 9 or 45?

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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by Froneck on 3/1/2015, 4:33 pm

I have been working on triggers for myself and my son Adam for quite a while. I can easily put a roll on any trigger! And could get the exact roll Adam wanted that would stay for the entire season.
 I have been working on a test fixture to plot trigger movement and Gary at Caspian is getting me a bad frame so I can make a test jig of it.
 I would like some help. I've talked to quite a few shooters over the years and all talk about Roll trigger yet when I ask them to describe the movement I get quite a few different answers.
 So can each of you describe what the perfect roll trigger feels like to yourself??

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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/1/2015, 5:19 pm

I want to feel it moving with the full, consistent 4lbs of force until it breaks.  I don't want it so smooth that I can't feel it.
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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by Froneck on 3/1/2015, 6:35 pm

Adam and I like the roll that I call UP Hill, as I'm increasing pressure the trigger I can feel it moving until it fires. If I were to plot my 4 pound trigger and it took just for example .040" from start to go bang then if I applied 1 pound it would move .010, 2 pounds another .010 (.020 total) 3 pounds another .010 (.030 total) and when 4 pounds was applied it would have moved the total .040 and go bang. Movement like a fish scale, 2 1/2 pounds will move the trigger .025 and so on so there's a smooth movement as finger pressure is increased to the go bang point.
 A friend of mine likes what I call the down hill roll, when he hits the target 4 pounds (Assuming a ball gun because we change the weight to what is legal for the gun being shot) the trigger again must move the example .040 but it gets lighter as it moves.
 So what you want is like a hydraulic cylinder with your finger on the piston. A relief valve set to 4 pounds will let the oil out through a small orifice so as long as you keep 4 pounds of pressure on the piston the relief valve will let the piston move as the oil flows through the orifice and when it moves .040 the go bang point is reached. I'm using .040 as an example because it easy to divide it by 4.

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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by Jack H on 3/1/2015, 9:22 pm

After 40+ years using crisp triggers in HS, revolvers and 1911, for me the jury is still out on the roll trigger.  Maybe I just have not found the perfect roll with no creep or other distractions.  I am not even too fond of the 2 stage 208 triggers.  I have an AX hammer set in a RO.  I switched to normal innards inside the MSH, and switched to a 18# MS and Colt flat spring.  All this for under a Nelson.  Next is to shoot it later this week.  I am hoping the beginning creep in the AX roll will wear in.

The main thing about any trigger for me is that it not have any distractions during the pressure applied.
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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by scrum derringer on 3/2/2015, 11:36 am

So since the short to medium roll can be done on existing parts, would the TR sear jig satisfy my needs for getting the roll?
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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by DavidR on 3/2/2015, 12:01 pm

scrum derringer wrote:So since the short to medium roll can be done on existing parts, would the TR sear jig satisfy my needs for getting the roll?

it will cut the sear to a nice angle, but the roll comes from leaving the sear face longer or can be with longer hammer hooks, im a crisp to super short roll myself, to much roll causes me to pull shots, to much time to think about it I guess.
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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by Froneck on 3/2/2015, 11:28 pm

I mentioned the roll I like in the previous post. I like to feel the trigger moving, get my mind off the trigger because if it's moving the gun will go bang. I have the Baikal IZH 35. It has a great trigger, fully adjustable.I made a copy with better steel and some modification. Adam liked it so I gave it to him to shoot. The trigger has 2 sears so the hammer weight of the second sear is so light it does not effect the trigger pull. It can be easily adjusted to a nice smooth pull. When I heard Feinwerkbau purchased the gun and were making a better copy I got one. I'm really disappointed in the way they did the trigger and have been trying to get it to feel like the Baikal, I'm almost there.
 Dave the shoe will be mailed tomorrow.

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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by DavidR on 3/3/2015, 10:57 am

thanks for the shoe! I heard about your home made 22 from Adam, that's a awesome story, does he still shoot that in competition?
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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

Post by Froneck on 3/3/2015, 12:48 pm

No: he took it to the AMU, they had to put a SN on it but he thought it best to shoot AMU guns and let them do all the work in them. Now I have it, He shoots AMU guns but still likes mine better. But I keep it ready for him Very Happy Took the homemade grips off and got a set of Rink, did a little fitting and it looks good.Still shoots great too Adam shot it for 10 years and put a lot of rounds thru it. Barrel was sent to me by Floyd Aikman, he was making a Free Pistol for Darious Young (I think) but it would not shoot 3/8" group at 50 meters. I put it in the Homemade gun and it shot 3/8" at 50 yards.

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Re: Roll trigger on existing stock trigger group

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