RF Recovery Drills

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RF Recovery Drills

Post by DonBrummer on 3/8/2015, 10:48 pm

I recently started training & practicing with a .45 and I’m having a difficult time with rapid fire and looking for some guidance.  I do dry fire and natural point of aim drills on a regular basic.   If I stay focused on my shot process I can usually get off 3 or 4 good shots in the 10 seconds, never 5.  In order to get off all 5 shots I need to do stupid things that I know are wrong, like rushing the shot while the dot is crossing the X.   The obvious conclusion is that I’m spending too much time recovering from the previous shot. What advice can you offer?
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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by Ed Hall on 3/9/2015, 9:43 am

First let me say that you are approaching this correctly, understanding that you should work forward in the manner you are; learning to fire less good shots.  Good approach!

The gun should fire when the sighting system is aligned and re-enters the black.  In order to accomplish this, you need to start the trigger before you reach the black.  This is a leap of faith.

Working with the first shot, learn to break it cleanly as soon as you can at the turn.  Next, learn how to start the trigger while still in recoil recovery, such that the gun fires when you are coming into the bull.  Some describe this as, "keeping the trigger moving."

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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by joem5636 on 3/9/2015, 10:26 am

One thing I find important is to keep your eye(s) on the target and bring the gun up to where you are looking. Trying to acquire the gun first is useless.

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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by DonBrummer on 3/10/2015, 9:11 pm

Ed
I had a really good day at the range today.  It was either beginners luck or an epiphany.  Thinking about the advice you provided I developed a plan for applying it.  I loaded 6 magazines with 5 rounds each and decided that I would begin the squeeze just as the dot reached the top of the black.  I didn’t use a timer as I wanted to focus on applying pressure while I was still in recovery and trying to find the minimum arc of movement.  The first 3 attempts were laughable as I tried to adopt your advice, holes everywhere, but then I realized that I completely stopped focusing on my shot process.  I took a moment to read my shot process and realized where I needed to insert your advice.  It took another 6 or 7 magazines but I developed a feel for it.  My groups got smaller and my worst shots were in the 8 ring.   I rolled out a fresh target, and pulled out the timer.  First string, all 5 shots in 9.72 second, second string at 8.26.  Target scored a 90-2x.   I rolled out another target and the first string was 8.89 seconds, second string was 9.37 seconds.  The target scored 96-3x (all in the black).  I decided to pack it in for the day and end it on a high note.
 
With afterthought to what I learned & experienced, I’m not “seeing” where the dot is/was when the shot broke.  I assume this is because I’m trying to learn and incorporate this approach into my shot process and it will return.  I updated my shot process, actually I wrote a .45  RF process for the time being.
 
   
I’m anxious to go back to the range and see if I can repeat it and be consistent.  Thank you for the tip.  I welcome any and all input you have to offer.
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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by Ed Hall on 3/11/2015, 12:15 am

Sounds Great Don,

It looks like you're making some good progress.  I like reading of your success and that you updated your process.  I hope you also wrote down some of the finer points of your outing in a journal where you can read them over prior to your next outing.  I remember once writing a full page description of my grip, while still holding the gun, when I had had a very good training session.  I actually wrote the details down with my left hand so I didn't have to break the grip with my right.

Good Shooting!

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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by AllAces on 3/11/2015, 7:30 am

During slow fire, after each shot I recover as if I'm shooting timed or rapid. You will improve with practice.
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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by DonBrummer on 3/18/2015, 11:18 pm

Definitely beginners luck because I'm not achieving the same scores.  They range from 82-93, as where my timed fire are 93+. Cleary, more training is needed. I have a sense of when to begin the squeeze but I'm having more fliers than I'd like. The 10 second drills have delivered confidence in my ability to get off 5 good shots.  I've noticed that many of the fliers happen on either the 2nd or 5th shot in the string.  

Yes I write notes about what went well and not so well on each outing but not to the level of detail you eluded to.  I review them frequently looking for the areas that need improvement.  10 second drills are the agenda for the next 3 or 4 outings.  Then I'll reevaluate another area to focus upon.
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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by john bickar on 3/19/2015, 8:52 am

AllAces wrote:During slow fire, after each shot I recover as if I'm shooting timed or rapid. You will improve with practice.
This is a great technique for learning follow through. I don't see enough shooters doing this.

To the OP, try 1-shot and 2-shot drills in 2 and 4 seconds, respectively.
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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by john bickar on 3/19/2015, 8:54 am

Ed Hall wrote: you need to start the trigger before you reach the black.  This is a leap of faith.
Can't repeat this enough.

You're going to need to break some eggs to make that omelette, though.
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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by Jon Eulette on 3/19/2015, 9:06 am

+ 1,000,000
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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by Ghillieman on 3/19/2015, 9:41 pm

A lot of great advice above.

Rapid fire in 45 is a bear, and there is a technique.

To me its all about squeezing the trigger, it should never stop moving for that ten seconds. Your finger should be on auto pilot. It helps to say in your head "squeeeeeze". The rest of your mind and body should concentrate on getting out of recoil, aligning the sights, and maintaining a sight picture while your trigger finger squeezes.

Work on getting out of recoil fast, aligning the sights, and getting them on target quickly. That will give you more time to squeeze the trigger.

If you feel rushed you will start jerking the trigger.

Squeeze the trigger.
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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by john bickar on 3/20/2015, 12:10 am

Mental rehearsal before rapid fire strings helps me as well. See and feel what I am going to do; mentally rehearse what a good rapid fire string looks and feels like. Get my mind in the right place - "this is what I am going to do."

Then do it.

Do, or do not. There is no try.
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Mastering 45 rapid fire

Post by Dipnet on 3/31/2015, 9:54 am

“Mastering” the 45 rapid fire has contiued to elude me. Frequently I have to hear the same idea repharsed many times before I get it. Ed Hall’s advice has sparked an understanding and man do I wish it was the weekend. I’ve read elsewhere that in rapid fire you had to keep the trigger moving, but I’ve never understood what that really means.

Ed is telling us to fire the first shot when the target turns, then immediately reapply trigger pressure while moving the dot towards the X for the next shot. By practicing this, we will begin to subconsciously coordinate timing of trigger pull and proper aim.
 
Next time at the range, I’m going to load all my magazines with 5 rounds each and practice shooting five shots in 10 seconds with the goal of shooting a 50. Thanks Don and Ed, dipnet
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Pistol Shooting: The Art (Part 1) by Edwin C. Hall

Post by carykiteboarder on 4/6/2015, 3:17 pm

I suggest you search for the article by this title.  It'll give you hope that if you keep trying, and keep listening to the right people you will have a sequence of "Oh! That's what they meant!" moments.

It also explains why you need to keep going back to the key sources as your skills improve.  You will discover things that you didn't really understand before.

I don't pretend to be one of those sources.  I am however a new shooter who has observed that it takes me a while to really grasp the things that the High Masters have told me.  When I have been unable to "get it", it usually means there is something more basic which I have failed to understand.

Edwin C. Hall is a great source.  The AMU Manual is also authoritative.  The Marine "Red Book" is a systematic approach for incremental improvement.  Some of those exercises don't seem to make much sense but they were not included arbitrarily.  It's very cleverly designed.

By the way, Mr. Hall, THANK YOU!
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Re: RF Recovery Drills

Post by s1120 on 4/8/2015, 7:56 am

carykiteboarder wrote:When I have been unable to "get it", it usually means there is something more basic which I have failed to understand.



How true is this!!!   You hear/read all these tips, and try to prosses them, and get little parts of it, off and on, then you get this tiny bit of basic info, and POW your on track and progressing fast!!

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Re: RF Recovery Drills

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