Sear Spring Question ?

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Skid on 3/14/2015, 5:33 pm

Ok I was weighing my hardball gun trigger and it won't lift the 4lb weight . My friend says all you have to do is bend one of your sear spring fingers and your good to go is this right ? and if so which sear spring finger do I bend. Now I don't know yet if I have a 3 finger spring or a 4 finger spring but in any case which one would I bend if this is the correct method to fix this or what is the correct method to fix this ?
                                                                                              Thanks in advance for all your guys help.

Skid

Posts : 126
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern Lower Mi

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Dr.Don on 3/14/2015, 5:57 pm

The left finger controls the pressure of the sear against the hammer.  The middle (on a 3-finger spring) controls the pressure against the trigger itself.  You can increase the pull weight by bending either the left or middle finger.  If it functions ok otherwise, I would probably bend the middle.  If it is way off, you may need to bend both.

Dr.Don

Posts : 377
Join date : 2012-10-31
Location : Cedar Park, TX

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Skid on 3/14/2015, 8:42 pm

I got it Thanks Dr. Don thanks !

Skid

Posts : 126
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern Lower Mi

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Wobbley on 3/14/2015, 9:57 pm

Actually your gun is broken. Bad.  Real bad.  You need to sell it.  I'll give you a dollar.  Very Happy:pirat:

Wobbley

Posts : 836
Join date : 2015-02-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by DavidR on 3/16/2015, 1:50 pm

Its better to feel the trigger, as it is now hammer cocked, unloaded how much tension do you feel when taking only the slack up? It should be about the pressure of pushing on a ink pen to put the point out, if its lighter then bend the center leg down slightly, little goes a long way with the sear spring, if the pressure feels good then bend the left leg a little till it picks up 4.25 cause it will usually get a little lighter after some use and this way it stays legal. final test, lock slide back put a dummy round or empty shell in the chamber then using the slide release drop the slide and be sure the hammer doesn't follow, if it does you need more weight on the left leg or a new sear.
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2958
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Jon Eulette on 3/16/2015, 2:09 pm

A good rule of thumb is to put half the weight on the disconnecter leaf and half on the sear leaf. If disconnecter is to light it can double or go full auto. If you take grip safety off and put mainspring housing in with the hammer strut sticking out the rear of frame and hammer down, you can pull trigger and feel and weigh the center leaf only. Put half the weight on it. Now adjust sear leaf to weight you desire.
Jon
avatar
Jon Eulette

Posts : 1386
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by DavidR on 3/16/2015, 3:20 pm

On a  bullseye gun thats 1.75 lb on the disconnecter leg? That sounds very heavy
to me and more like what you might find on a defense weapon.  Curious what other " bullseye gunsmiths" opinions on this are.
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2958
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by kc.crawford.7 on 3/16/2015, 4:50 pm

What Jon said is about what I go for as well.  I usually try for a 50/50 start between sear and disconnector leaf tension.  If customer wants a sharp snappy trigger return I'll go more to a 60/40 favoring the disconnector leaf.
avatar
kc.crawford.7

Posts : 328
Join date : 2012-12-09
Location : Maysville, NC

http://www.kcskustomcreations.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Jerry Keefer on 3/16/2015, 4:54 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:A good rule of thumb is to put half the weight on the disconnecter leaf and half on the sear leaf. If disconnecter is to light it can double or go full auto. If you take grip safety off and put mainspring housing in with the hammer strut sticking out the rear of frame and hammer down, you can pull trigger and feel and weigh the center leaf only. Put half the weight on it. Now adjust sear leaf to weight you desire.
Jon

I agree.. I want lots of positive tension on the trigger bow and disconnector..


Last edited by Jerry Keefer on 3/16/2015, 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
avatar
Jerry Keefer

Posts : 1001
Join date : 2012-01-02
Location : Maidens, VA

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by DavidR on 3/17/2015, 10:01 am

Great info, never really heard much of the 50/50 setup, most books and other info just says very minimum needed to reset disco should be no lower than 8-10 oz's.
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2958
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Jerry Keefer on 3/17/2015, 10:20 am

It's merely take up pressure...Example: 2 lbs of take up stops at the sear.. Now, it still takes 3.5 / 4 lbs to break to shot..
I personally advocate a positive, smooth, take up pressure...It's good insurance against doubles from trigger bounce, and aids recovery during sustained fire. I think the shooter benefits from a strong reset "click".. You are assured of exactly where you are in the process, if you are reading and feeling the trigger.
avatar
Jerry Keefer

Posts : 1001
Join date : 2012-01-02
Location : Maidens, VA

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by DavidR on 3/17/2015, 11:22 am

confused... if 2 lbs is take up then would not sear pressure just be additional 1.5lbs for a total of 3.5lbs ?
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2958
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Skid on 3/17/2015, 12:01 pm

Well as it turned out I moved both the left and middle fingers just a little and the trigger still feels good. I didn't know to check for slam fires. I just stepped out back and dropped the the slide several times on a live round and didn't have a single slam fire but thanks for mentioning it DavidR and thanks for all the advise on this matter.

Skid

Posts : 126
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern Lower Mi

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Jon Eulette on 3/17/2015, 12:12 pm

The responses to this post are a simplification. If you get anal you can get into the positive or negative hammer deflection (True Radius Razz). Sear engagement depth into full cock notch. The applied force from mainspring via the hammer strut. The affect of the grip safety leaf causing a increase in trigger pull because sear spring is severely out of spec/incorrect bend. Roll trigger vs. crisp. They all have an effect on what's going to happen when adjusting the sear spring. So in simplest terms if trigger is 3.5# and 2# is on the middle leaf (disconnector) than 1.5# is on the left leaf (sear). And a reminder: Just because it's 3.5# doesn't make it a nice trigger!!! It's so much more than sear spring pressure.
Jon
avatar
Jon Eulette

Posts : 1386
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Skid on 3/17/2015, 12:19 pm

Ok thanks Jon

Skid

Posts : 126
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern Lower Mi

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by DavidR on 3/17/2015, 12:23 pm

There is a lot more to all this for sure , That's why talks like this with knowledgeable people willing to share is what makes this forum a great resource!!
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2958
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Skid on 3/17/2015, 12:32 pm

I agree 100%

Skid

Posts : 126
Join date : 2014-05-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern Lower Mi

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Froneck on 3/17/2015, 1:18 pm

Yes there is quite a bit that influences the "trigger pull" especially the disconnecter. Being the 1911 is one of the very few guns that has a disconnecter. Most have the transfer bar disconnected and do not have a separate device. And there is quite a few different styles of "trigger pulls" that various shooter like. Crisp like breaking glass is not possible simply because something must move so it only feels that way. Roll is another style but if I were to ask 10 people to describe the roll they like I'll get 10 different answers. That being said the new shooter is left to getting the weight to legal amounts because there is no requirement of trigger type (except release trigger) in the rules. Get it legal then determine the pull style.

Froneck

Posts : 699
Join date : 2014-04-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by DavidR on 3/17/2015, 2:08 pm

I would like to see pictures from gunsmiths of what a properly adjusted 3.5lb bullseye sear spring profile should look like. In books on the 1911 most times you will see a pic like the bottom one I have posted, the top spring is one I adjusted to have 1.5lb on the disconnecter and 2lbs on the sear. Just curious if the look fits what they have expressed as the correct way to adjust the spring.
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2958
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by dronning on 3/17/2015, 2:18 pm

DavidR wrote:I would like to see pictures from gunsmiths of what a properly adjusted 3.5lb bullseye sear spring profile should look like. In books on the 1911 most times you will see a pic like the bottom one I have posted, the top spring is one I adjusted to have 1.5lb on the disconnecter and 2lbs on the sear. Just curious if the look fits what they have expressed as the correct way to adjust the spring.

Wouldn't that depend on the steel used for the spring. Some might not need to be adjusted as much, some more.

- Dave
avatar
dronning

Posts : 1258
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 63
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by DavidR on 3/17/2015, 3:09 pm

most sear springs are made either like the top pic or like the bottom, except the Clark 4 leg, the bend might be slightly different but it will still be close to the same profile
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2958
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Froneck on 3/17/2015, 10:50 pm

The grip safety spring in the lower photo is the best way to bend it. The lower safety spring will be against the frame and will not effect the other two. The upper safety spring may change the pull weight depending on how much the grip safety is pushed in.

Froneck

Posts : 699
Join date : 2014-04-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by DavidR on 3/18/2015, 10:15 am

Still would like to see a picture from one of the smiths of a properly formed 3.5 lb sear spring
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2958
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by kc.crawford.7 on 3/18/2015, 10:25 am

David, the appearance of that spring is going to change from gun to gun.  I'll take a couple of pics of guns I'm waiting to ship back to owners today or tomorrow and post them then.
avatar
kc.crawford.7

Posts : 328
Join date : 2012-12-09
Location : Maysville, NC

http://www.kcskustomcreations.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Jerry Keefer on 3/18/2015, 1:07 pm

The trigger on the 1911 is not a precision target system. We do the best we can, but it leaves much to be desired.. The sear spring is trapped by the main spring housing, which limits the sear springs ability to flex.
I relieve the housing to allow more range of motion.. It produces a more repeatable condition. Bending the spring leaf can drive you nuts. It's like playing the lottery.. Hit & miss, mostly 99.9% miss. Then it changes, so I avoid bending if possible, and adjust with a screw in the main spring housing.. It's easier, and seems to last much longer.  Not allowed on CMP guns, but I don't build them any longer, so lucky me..

avatar
Jerry Keefer

Posts : 1001
Join date : 2012-01-02
Location : Maidens, VA

Back to top Go down

Re: Sear Spring Question ?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum