I know little about air pistols but ...

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I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by beeser on Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:27 pm

Admittedly, I know little about air pistols and their use in competitions but after a week of reading about the subject I can’t help to wonder why they are not more popular.  In an effort to gain proficiency in precision pistol shooting, air pistols seem to have distinct advantages over firearms, to wit:
 
Cost is less both initially and ongoing.
Less restrictive legally and where they can be used.  Very few US locals ban their use and a range can even be set up at most homes.
Less noise.  Ear protection used in air pistol competitions is used more for reducing distractions than protection from the gun going off.
Safer
 
The only disadvantage that I can think of is that you don’t get the pleasure of smelling burnt gunpowder, something that I strangely enjoy.
 
So, why aren’t air pistols more popular in precision shooting?  What am I missing?
 
(Moderators – I realize this probably doesn’t directly have anything to do with Bullseye.  Please feel free to remove the post if you find it objectionable.)

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:35 pm

Agreed.  I would like to do air pistol, but the only league is pretty far away and in my next PCS move, non-existent, so I'm looking at using it to practice for slow fire in my garage vice getting to compete with other shooters in the winter.
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by jmdavis on Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:06 pm

JayhawkNavy02 wrote:Agreed.  I would like to do air pistol, but the only league is pretty far away and in my next PCS move, non-existent, so I'm looking at using it to practice for slow fire in my garage vice getting to compete with other shooters in the winter.
For some reason I thought that you shot with 12th Precinct. They have an air pistol league. Fairfax Rod and Gun also runs one in the winter. 

But to answer the original question, I think that there is a stigma in the US about airguns in general. They are seen by many to be nothing more than toys. I shoot air pistol and rifle regularly because I can do so in the backyard and with the hedges, no one is the wiser. In Europe, I believe that airguns are less restricted and thus popular since it can be so hard to own firearms.
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:22 pm

What's up brother!  I live in SE Stafford so I can swing up, but 12th precinct takes a couple hours.  I missed out on the air pistol winter league due to a 6 month TDY, otherwise I was going to shoot with Rich at Fairfax.   I wish I could have shot air pistol, because it seems to do miracles for slow fire and fundamentals.   Plus ammo is cheap!  I shot at Richmond this weekend, great club, relatively close and met Jerry who is an absolute class act and watched his shooter bore out the X ring.

I'm still looking in San Diego for matches.  NOVA and Annapolis are phenomenal for shooting sports.

Derek
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by jmdavis on Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:34 pm

No idea about San Diego. You just missed me this weekend at Cavalier. I was cleaning the .22 pistol Friday night and discovered that I was minus the recoil buffer. It was the only thing I had with a 50 yard zero so I wound up shooting indoors at Rivanna most of the day yesterday. I was at Cavalier today with the backup gun getting a 50 yard zero with the dot sight. 

Jerry is very much a class act, and Amira is an excellent shooter. 

Are you shooting Rifle at Fleet and All Navy or just the pistol?
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by Wobbley on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:32 am

Bullseye in SD has two venues Escondido Fish and Game and South Bay Rod and gun.  There is usually a fleet match in the spring shot at Pendleton.

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by BE Mike on Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:49 am

jmdavis wrote:

But to answer the original question, I think that there is a stigma in the US about airguns in general. They are seen by many to be nothing more than toys. I shoot air pistol and rifle regularly because I can do so in the backyard and with the hedges, no one is the wiser. In Europe, I believe that airguns are less restricted and thus popular since it can be so hard to own firearms.
Yes, this has something to do with it. Sometimes the more macho among bullseye pistol shooters think it is a sissies game until they try it. Once they try it, they either accept the challenge or find out that the increased difficulty isn't something they think they can handle. Actually, at our club, we sometimes get a pretty good turnout at air pistol matches compared to indoor bullseye.
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by beeser on Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:22 am

Viewing air pistols as no more than a toy is something I had not considered.  It's unfortunate because it seems to have so much to offer.

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by 1joel1 on Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:25 am

No air pistol in San Diego, but there is a match in Orange County along with some ISSF style matches. I shot free pistol there a year ago or so.

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by jmdavis on Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:35 am

It absolutely has a great deal to offer and some very good shooters use them for practice and to extend their shooting into other areas of competition. The air pistol might be the cheapest way to get into International Style shooting. 

But around me there are no Summer air pistol competitions, or air rifle, or standard pistol, or rapid fire pistol or free pistol (that I have found) within 150 miles. we do have winter ap league in Fairfax (95 miles), there are winter matches at 12th Precinct (134 miles). But the only Summer matches I know about are 2 or 3 at Palmyra PA (232 miles).
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by jmdavis on Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:48 am

New info. It looks like there are some postal AP matches. 

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48817
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by beeser on Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:58 am

jmdavis wrote:It absolutely has a great deal to offer and some very good shooters use them for practice and to extend their shooting into other areas of competition. The air pistol might be the cheapest way to get into International Style shooting. 

But around me there are no Summer air pistol competitions, or air rifle, or standard pistol, or rapid fire pistol or free pistol (that I have found) within 150 miles. we do have winter ap league in Fairfax (95 miles), there are winter matches at 12th Precinct (134 miles). But the only Summer matches I know about are 2 or 3 at Palmyra PA (232 miles).
Very strange.  Considering the ease by which a range and match could be set up I find it odd that more matches aren't available.  They don't have to be restricted to firearm ranges.  Heck, I could even have one in my barn.

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by jmdavis on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:14 am

A few years ago they took place at the local Moose Lodge. You could run them anyplace that you have 36 feet (or a little more). But in a Metro of 1 million, you might only have 5-10 with any real interest. 

I'll give you an example that might help explain it. I belong to 2 ranges, one is on 100 acres, has 1600 members and has outdoor ppc, rifle, bullseye, plinking, skeet, and 5 stand and an indoor 25 yard range. 

I shoot indoors there a few times a week. Usually I am alone on the indoor range unless the University team is practicing or someone is getting ready for an IDPA match. On the 2 of the past 3 Saturdays, I have spend 5 hours on the indoor range and had 3 other people show up. 

The other range has around 500 acres, 100 yard rifle (25, 50 and 100), 100m silhouette, 35 lane Bullseye, Cowboy action, PPC, 3 bays allowing up to .30 cal, 5 stand and trap, and a 500 yard rifle range. Yesterday from noon to 3 there were 2 people on 500, one on 100, one on Bullseye (me), and 4 total in two of the bays. It was Easter, but the temp was 65 and Sunny. 

My point is that many people, including range members, just don't shoot anymore. They may talk about shooting and they may attend a match on occasion, but they do not spend much time at all on live fire.
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by Froneck on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:50 pm

Well I think the reason for the lack of popularity is similar to those many offer about Bullseye. They are making different classifications to attract new shoots by pandering to their complaints that the guns are too expensive. A good air pistol will set you back quite a few bucks and with the latest compressed air type the refilling equipment is not cheap either. Plus that target is harder than bullseye!
 No classification so everyone competes against the best. Don't get me wrong I enjoy shooting air pistol and wish there were more matches locally!
 Using air at home to practice is quite different than shooting a match. At home you can use a lower cost air pistol or one that has been yesterdays top of the line until newer versions out shoot it but at a match your at a disadvantage.

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:27 pm

When I did have access to a local ap match we always advertised that we had loaner guns at the match.
As far as being at a disadvantage...I placed quite well using a crossman MK-II as my starter & eventually worked up thru a daisy 747 (10 pts addeed) and ended up with a Baikal (for another 5 pts).
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:43 pm

jmdavis wrote:No idea about San Diego. You just missed me this weekend at Cavalier. I was cleaning the .22 pistol Friday night and discovered that I was minus the recoil buffer. It was the only thing I had with a 50 yard zero so I wound up shooting indoors at Rivanna most of the day yesterday. I was at Cavalier today with the backup gun getting a 50 yard zero with the dot sight. 

Jerry is very much a class act, and Amira is an excellent shooter. 

Are you shooting Rifle at Fleet and All Navy or just the pistol?

I was thinking about both Rifle and Pistol, but I signed up to be a volunteer, so I'm going to take my name of the rifle EIC match and just shoot the pistol competitions.  Fundamentally, if I'm shooting the entire week I'm not giving CDR Glancey much help.  Considering the amount of effort he and CDR Bartel put in getting an event together out of their and other USNMT members personal funds and spare time I owe it to them.  I haven't practiced rifle so I don't expect I would do that well anyway, so I'll focus on pistol and pick up trash or whatever the Boss needs.

1joel1 wrote:No air pistol in San Diego, but there is a match in Orange County along with some ISSF style matches. I shot free pistol there a year ago or so.

Joel

No air rifle either, except in the Poway NJROTC program basically, which is unfortunate, because my son is just starting to get good at 3-P sporter class and I dropped change on gloves, rifles, etc. Sad   That includes 4-H, and the American Legion if my google-fu is strong.  I think Santa-Margarita has a bullseye shoot at Camp Pendleton, but I heard some of their equipment/storage/facility was damaged in a previous fire, but that may already be fixed.  If I remember right Don Gussler, who was a long time (20+ years USNMST) is the match director for High Power & Conventional Pistol.

Cheers,
Derek


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:02 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by dronning on Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:45 pm

The IZH 46M Baikal, will shoot almost as tight of a group as my LP10E, all 10's for sure if you are up to it!

- Dave
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by Froneck on Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:11 pm

I agree the Baikal is a good pistol. I had an Air Match (my son still has it) nice tack driver but your not going to shoot in a good International Match with it. I shot a match at Benning one year, didn't do bad but that extra effort needed to cock that pump, even though single stroke takes it's toll eventually. Didn't do great either! Not bad at a local match with no Olympic certification but at a sanctioned event it's a great disadvantage.

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:23 pm

If you work on your technique cocking 60 times + sighters is a lot less work than holding the gun out & concentrating for 60 shots
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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by Froneck on Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:50 pm

But I'm lazy! So much easier to just put a pellet in and just shoot! Right now I'm concentrating on getting my AW-93 shooting! One thing at a time! Too many guns so little time Smile

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by dan allen on Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:06 pm

My club runs a weekly AP match from the time winter league ends until it starts up again. Izzys rule the line but there are several others including my Daisy 717 which one Izzy shooter nicknamed the "doorstop" until I started beating him.

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by robert84010 on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:07 pm

dan allen wrote:My club runs a weekly AP match from the time winter league ends until it starts up again. Izzys rule the line but there are several others including my Daisy 717 which one Izzy shooter nicknamed the "doorstop" until I started beating him.
it's always fun out shooting the naysayers with their pretty pistols!

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by 1joel1 on Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:13 am






  If I remember right Don Gussler, who was a long time (20+ years USNMST) is the match director for High Power & Conventional Pistol.

Cheers,
Derek
Don is out at Southbay in Dulzura.

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by beeser on Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:21 am

1joel1 wrote:





  If I remember right Don Gussler, who was a long time (20+ years USNMST) is the match director for High Power & Conventional Pistol.

Cheers,
Derek
Don is out at Southbay in Dulzura.
More like East County than Southbay.  Good biker destination.

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

Post by 1joel1 on Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:28 am

beeser wrote:
1joel1 wrote:





  If I remember right Don Gussler, who was a long time (20+ years USNMST) is the match director for High Power & Conventional Pistol.

Cheers,
Derek
Don is out at Southbay in Dulzura.
More like East County than Southbay.  Good biker destination.
Sorry,

I meant South Bay Rod and Gun Club. They have a Bullseye match every month.

Joel

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Re: I know little about air pistols but ...

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