High Standard Frame Cracks

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High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by GrumpyOldMan on 6/1/2015, 11:07 am

Hey, I've heard tales (not a single one first-hand) of a few people getting cracked frames in High Standard .22LR pistols, from using high velocity ammo.

How common are these?

Have they ever been reported with SV-ammo only guns?

Have YOU ever personally seen on live and in person?

Are the cracks always in the same place?

How many different pics of this problem are available on the innerweb and where can I see some?

I'm a bit skeptical, since the steel on the HS pistols I have seen shows every sign of being NOT brittle. And I have seen non-stressed parts on a 1980s Astra 9mm fail from being over-hardened and becoming brittle.

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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by rich.tullo on 6/1/2015, 11:16 am

I have heard of two,seen one

1) The one I saw was near the upper part of of the frame just above the grips on the right hand side, it was a CT gun, It was welded and seems to work OK. 

2) The one I heard about ran down the center of the frame and I don't know it it was repaired.
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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by Jon Eulette on 6/1/2015, 12:00 pm

I have a cracked frame I'm prepping for welding. It was an old Clark HS. Cracked through rails on both sides.
Jon
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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by Rob Kovach on 6/1/2015, 1:01 pm

Photo?
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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by Jack H on 6/1/2015, 2:04 pm

I have seen several over 40 some years.  Every one was a Victor.  All cracks start at the right rear of the magwell and into the slide stop cutout.  Some still function even if cracked.  A few seen were broken both sides.  Common belief is the slide hammers the rear of the frame away from the front of the frame when it hits the rear frame lug.  High mileage, frames lack of temper, week worn recoil spring, heavier barrels and sights in front, and anything but SV ammo contribute to the failure.  The frames weak point is at the spot described above.  Just like a mechanics slide hammer/puller, the weak point will give eventually.  Using SV ammo, maintaining a good recoil spring usually is good enough prevention.
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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by rich.tullo on 6/1/2015, 2:08 pm

The one I saw looked like a Citation to me, I will ask my buddy. It will function you just lose accuracy. He gets good scores so I dont think the damage or rail repair is a tremendous concern once repaired.

I believe he had close to 200K rounds through the gun and he still shoots in the 260 to 280 range on the NMC in our 22 league.
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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by Jon Eulette on 6/1/2015, 2:37 pm

I don't have a good photo. I took the frame to a welder previously and after inspecting the weld I asked for additional welding. Another welder at the shop took the frame and welded tooooooooo much and warped the frame. I've had to cut through the weld and make a fixture to hold the frame rails true for rewelding. It's unfortunate that most people who say they can TIG weld really can't! So I have my hands full making this one a shooter again.
Jon
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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by Al on 6/1/2015, 3:26 pm

I have a Citation with the infamous cracked frame right above the right grip panel.  It's still usable, but seeing as I've several other citations, it see's use very rarely.

In the interest of full disclosure, I bought it in that condition.  The prior owner was very emphatic about pointing it out to me and letting me know he had put several cases of CCI SV though it after he bought it in the same condition.  He bought it cheap & sold it to me cheaply enough, that the sum of the remaining parts was worth more than I paid for it.  I've put maybe 500 rounds through it in 5-6 years.  The crack hasn't changed. 

Unless all my other ones go kaput, it'll probably never be shot again.  Just sit there in case I need parts from it.

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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by 172snowhawk on 6/1/2015, 9:13 pm

I've seen several Victors with frame cracks including my own. Several months ago, my Hamden Victor cracked at the right frame rail adjacent to the slide stop cutout after 40 years of bullseye shooting, over 80,000 rounds, all standard velocity. I had the frame replaced by HS Houston for about $400. Pistol shoots fine.
Cracks I've seen are usually at the right frame rail. However, I did see a Victor East Hartford recently with two cracks starting on the left frame rail next to the mag well.

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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by rich.tullo on 6/2/2015, 8:48 am

How are the TX High Standards?
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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by s1120 on 6/2/2015, 10:01 am

Ive never seen one in person.... frankly since I have two, and the go-to gun has a VERY high round count!!! I hope I never do!!  Ive seen pics though, and keep a good eye on the spots. IMHO granted some guns have flaws... but I think most you see are from abuse. High vol, and not changing recoil springs. Will they survive running HI Vol bulk ammo?  Maybe, but Im not going to risk it.

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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by 172snowhawk on 6/2/2015, 11:40 am

Two TX High Standard Victors I've seen recently were very good in appearance and accuracy. Frames were stainless steel. My replacement frame is matte black and no different in appearance. With an LSP barrel, shoots in the x-ring.

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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by Jerry Keefer on 6/3/2015, 2:47 pm

Military model.. All SV ammo many years of use.. Will attempt a weld/repair when I have time..



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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by s1120 on 6/3/2015, 2:55 pm

WOW that ones pretty cracked up!!  You really gotta think, that with a lot of these guns, they are not sitting in a safe, and brought out to plink some cans. A lot of these HS's have 100's of thousands of round through them!! Like anything sooner or later the steel is just going to wear out, and absorb its last impact.

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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by Jerry Keefer on 6/3/2015, 3:12 pm

I should have mentioned, that gun is owned by a HM that has been very active in the game for a looooong time..He now shoots mostly Hammerlis, so I have time to experiment with that frame. Smile The machining on these is somewhat primitive, and contributes to stress risers/cracks..
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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

Post by Jack H on 6/3/2015, 4:40 pm

That left side is like one Victor I saw plus the thin metal had chips missing.  And it was still shooting.  The only thing holding the frame together was the thin metal on one side down by the mag release.  And that lug pictured is really battered.

My mentor told me to always relieve and polish the stress starter spot at the right rear of the magwell.
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Re: High Standard Frame Cracks

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