Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

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Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Historian1972 on Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:35 am

During the center fire portion of the league 600, felt a strange round go off and a failure to eject.  Took a closer look and noticed that the entire barrel had split all the way down the middle.  Barsto barrel, not sure of the age, all though I am sure it has seen thousands of rounds.  Just through me for loop. Thought you might want to see and hear some possible causes.

Thanks, 
Jeff S.

Links to images

Barrel 1

Barrel 2

Barrel 3
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:08 am

Well a HOT load would've probably banana peeled the barrel.  I think faulty barrel. 
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by james r chapman on Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:56 am

Wow.
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by DeweyHales on Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:30 am

That's crazy.
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Jack H on Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:59 am

Alibi allowed.
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by james r chapman on Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:09 am

Jack H wrote:Alibi allowed.

*grin*

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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Froneck on Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:15 am

Some time ago there was an article in the Rifleman. A guy wanted to determine what caused barrels to banana peel. They were in cartoons, movies and pictures in various gun magazines. Gun store I went to had one and a gun club I belonged to had one mounted on the wall too so it does happen. But why? Usually when it happened light loads were thought to have caused it as it seemed to happen more with lighter loads. Guy tested Rifles, Shotguns and Pistols and no matter what he tried could not duplicate the banana peeling. Even tried putting a bullet in the barrel by just loading a primer with no powder then firing the next round with excess powder. Bulged the barrel but no banana peel!
 But did find one way that did it every time. He did the same primer no powder to get the bullet stuck in the barrel then put the normal charge in the barrel too. Loaded the same amount of powder in a primed case with the same type bullet and fired it. Banana peel! Lower the amount of powder to very light load and did the same sequence. Banana peeled again.
 He concluded that the primer never ignited the powder so he tested light loads and was able to duplicate the condition. He determined that the small powder charge lay on the bottom side of the brass and the primer sent the flash over the top and powder did not ignite. The shooter thinking the gun shot especially a revolver lowered the gun dumping the power into the bore then shooting another round with the previous powder and bullet in the barrel causing a banana peel.
 Not too long ago Myth Busters tried to banana peel a gun, no matter what they tried they couldn't do it. I think they tried it on all three types Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun. They had a 12 gauge shot gun and stuffed everything they could think of in the barrel and it would not banana peel! They pounded a steel rod in the end of the barrel but still no peel! Finally they did what I though would either banana peel it or blow a hole in the side. They pounded the rod back in and welded it! Blew the rod out, broke the weld and all that happened is they bulged the barrel!
 My memory seems to rattle as if I seen photos of similar split in two 1911 barrels but I can't remember where or why it happened. I would venture a guess it was the Rifleman back when it had a lot of good articles and information not an Advertizement flyer it is now.

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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by DavidR on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:29 pm

Could have been hot round after a squib, that usually just puts a bulge in the barrel though, id be on the phone to barsto for sure, bet they will replace that for sure.
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Froneck on Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:10 pm

Yes having a bullet stuck in the barrel and shooting another will only bulge the barrel.
 I had a friend at my club that love to load super light loads. Often they would not cycle his gun so he would quickly grab the slide and chamber another round! I don't remember how many barrels I replaced for him! It got so expensive buying barrels he had me roll the bulge out! I was really surprised that the rolled bulged barrel shot pretty good! 
 It's not the bullet stuck in the barrel but the bullet in the barrel with the powder that didn't ignite sandwiched between the stuck round and the next fired round that caused the banana peeling according to the Rifleman article.

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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by expendable on Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:23 pm

There is a mark in the rifling about a inch from the end of the barrel that looks strange. 
The first picture it kind of looks bulged in that area as well, squib possibly?

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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Froneck on Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:21 pm

I was looking at that bulge in picture 3 and in both 2 and 3 the rifling in that area looks burned out. Been a long time since I read that article in the Rifleman, was a lot of pictures too but I can't remember them. Seems to be as that guy wrote powder never ignited, bullet went into the barrel along with the powder. Next round sandwiched the powder, escaping gas ignited the sandwiched powder and peeled the barrel.
 That's my best guess.

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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by james r chapman on Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:26 pm

Do Barsto barrels have pads???
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Wobbley on Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:47 pm

Perhaps a bullet had been stuck a round fired then it was "related" by peening it back and turning it does on a lathe??  Dunno but this failure does not look like a typical over pressure split barrel.  It looks more like a fatigue failure.  Could have been bad steel combined with an old bulge???
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Froneck on Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:24 pm

What ever happened it started at that bulge. The gun would not have been able to shoot with that bulge. I've seen other tubes split like that with Hydraulic pressure. The bulge expanded but a crack developed and continued. As soon as the crack developed it became the weak spot and kept going. Rather than the metal expanding and making a bigger bulge the crack expanded and continued to the ends.

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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by 243winxb on Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:33 pm

My guess. A bullet was stuck in the end of the barrel. The next shot spit it. Just like this 45acp. 
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Froneck on Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:06 pm

I have seen quite a few barrels bulged by shooting another round when one is stuck in the barrel but never one split. As I mentioned earlier the only way that guy testing barrels to make them banana peel was to put the unburned powder down the barrel the shoot another round. Barrel peels every time.
 I'm not sure how it happens but I have heard many times that a squib load or very light load will cycle the 1911 yet leave a bullet in the barrel. I don't understand how that might happen as I don't think it's possible yet I'm told it does happen! Never happened to me!

 Frank

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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:58 pm

I wanna know about the number of and appearances of the holes in the target.

My vote based on some experience and semi-edjoomated visual photo analysis here is a bullet lodged near the end followed by a second round. What would normally be a bulge situation in a revolver barrel split the relatively thinner .45 ACP barrel. Forward impact of the second bullet striking the lodged one interfered with the recoil cycle and caused the FTEx/Ej.

Even with that level of abuse, the nature of the longitudinal split makes me ALSO suspect either a previously-harmless flaw or pair of inclusions in the barrel steel.

Manufacturing is a strange business full of strange events and outcomes.

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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Jon Eulette on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:21 pm

I've rebarrelled 7 or 8 barrels that had squib load stuck bullet in end of the barrel. They all bulged the barrel. Looking at how this barrel split I wonder if the steel blank had a grainular flaw (pre-drilling/rifling/fabricating) that when it failed it split the entire barrel as in the photos. I've never seen a barrel like this before and hope I never do :p)
I once had a Kart barrel that after I built it shot 1.5" 50 yard groups. After 400 ish rounds it was fouling to the high heavens and groups were now 4+" at 50 yards. I noticed pitting in the lands and grooves. It was as if barrel steel was stripping out and bullet jacket was stripping as well.  I sent barrel back to Fred Kart.  He said it had carborized during heat treatment. So unfortunate things do happen.
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by C.Perkins on Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:55 pm

Since Jeff S., the OP has not returned with any additional information I still have one question...
What happened after the shot before the split barrel shot ?

Asking cause some will have a malfunction and clear it real quick in the heat of the moment and fire another shot without checking what the previous malfunction was.

I say this cause when I first started reloading for the .45 I had a load during timed fire that did not eject and thought just cycle the action real quick and carry on cause you have enough time.

After I cycled the slide and loaded another round something inside said NO, do not fire.
Good thing, there was a .45 bullet a couple inches in the barrel and if I would have fired again, well you know what would have happened.

Looking at the pic's just makes me think that there was a squib load about an inch from the muzzle and the one behind it did the deed.

JMHO

Clarence
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by GrumpyOldMan on Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:03 am

Clarence:

I think we both know what was telling you to pause... Glad you listened.

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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

Post by Scott Correa on Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:08 am

This looks freakishly like a stress corrosion cracking failure.... Years ago it was noted that chloronated esters in machining oils commonly in use would initiate stress corrosion cracking in gun metal.  Not knowing it's age or the specifics of the fabrication processes used on your particular barrel I couldnt say for sure, BUT it looks almost textbook....... 
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Re: Check out my barrel...this happened during league tonight

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